1. Leonid09/25/2005 00:27:40
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Most of western breeders have warmblood mentality, so they count balls, against of races and use biotechnology in breeding. Not necesary to discuse this themes, necesary to change mentality. We have breed pureblood horses. And if you find money for mares, please сooperate for sire too, like we do. Everybody knows we stoped biotechnologyes in teke breeding.

2. Lisa Belhage09/25/2005 01:55:58

Hi Leonid,

I am sure that we would all be interested to know and understand the reasoning behind the ban on biotechnologies in akhal teke breeding in Russia. If you would be so kind as to present us with your arguement against artificial insemination, embryo transfer, etc., then perhaps we can again entice Maria to translate for us

Cheers, Lisa

3. Leonid09/25/2005 14:59:58
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Особые обязательства чистокровного коннозаводства

«…Статус чистокровной налагает особые обязательства на коневодов, разводящих эту породу. Идеальный племенной учет, строжайшая проверка происхождения и регулярное издание племенных книг необходимый минимум селекционно-племенных мероприятий…»
А. Климук

Совершенно очевидно, что понятие чистокровности не является научным термином, а является следствием традиционного понимания о лошади, сложившегося с древнейших времён. Чистокровность – это, прежде всего, дух, традиции, вытекающие из истории, культуры и философии развития человечества. Чистокровность – это, вообще, философское понятие. Человечество, развиваясь, разбилось на группы и касты в соответствии с социальным статусом и родом занятий, создало иерархическую лестницу. Каждая социальная группа создавала и создаёт для себя предметы, необходимые для её существования. Кастам людей, занимающих самые высшие ступени общественной лестницы, необходимо окружать себя предметами, способствующими укреплению их духа, власти и могущества. Среди ряда признаков, определяющих статус человека, безусловно, были и есть лошади. Людская «элита» нуждалась и нуждается в самых лучших, самых быстрых, самых смелых, то есть в чистокровных лошадях. Родилась, таким образом, каста элитных лошадей, обслуживающих интересы «элиты» общества. Нравится нам или не нравится, - это реальность, данная нам историей развития человечества, которая породила традиционное понимание чистокровности.
Чистокровность – это более древнее и более традиционное понимание, нежели «закрытая племенная книга». Безусловно, что сначала существовали традиции чистокровного коннозаводства и чистокровные лошади, которых записывали в племенные книги, а не наоборот - лошади, записанные в книги, стали называться чистокровными.
Следовательно, Книга, где учитываются чистокровные лошади, должна иметь статус Библии и соответственно должна сохранять в чистоте не только формальное происхождение, но и дух, понимание и традиции чистокровности.
Без понимания этих принципов чистокровное коннозаводство рискует превратиться в производственный конвейер с пронумерованной в регистрационной книге продукцией.
Чистокровное коннозаводство обязано строжайшим образом оберегать древние традиции и ритуалы, доставшиеся нам от гениальных предков, сумевших огранить этот сказочный бриллиант под названием чистокровная лошадь. Английские коннозаводчики, прекрасно понимая значение этих истин, окружили английскую чистокровную тщательно оберегаемыми древними ритуалами.
Судьба самой древней из чистокровных пород – ахалтекинской - в ХХ веке сложилась не столь благоприятно. Революционные коллизии, потрясшие Россию, разрушили веками сложившийся уклад общества. В сопровождающей революцию разрухе было не до соблюдения старых туркменских традиций коннозаводства. Следуя веяниям моды, в 30-е годы была проведена масштабная метизация породы с английской чистокровной. К счастью, эксперимент был не завершён, а помесные лошади были в массе отбракованы. Тем не менее, линия Ак-белека, к нашему позору, восходит к её родоначальнику «англичанину» Фортингбрассу. Больших усилий стоило текинским коннозаводчикам убедить мировую общественность в том, ахалтекинская порода лошадей не утратила статуса чистокровности.
ХХI век приготовил новый удар по устоям и традициям чистокровности. Это новые технологии, внедряемые деятелями от науки в современное коннозаводство, а именно: искусственное осеменение замороженной спермой, пересадка эмбрионов и разведение лошадей с помощью клонирования.
К чему приведёт внедрение указанных технологий? Прежде всего, к потере уникального духа чистокровности. Невозможно по фильмам и фотографии уловить тончайшие нюансы характера жеребца, стадии его формирования и становления, оценить двигательные способности. Селекционный подбор по фотографии приведёт к усреднению селекционных признаков коннозаводства. Безусловно, что фотография не отражает всех достоинств и недостатков лошади. Селекционер, создавая новую лошадь, превращается в слепца, ограняющего бриллиант. Исчезнет такой дорогой для всех конников термин, как «лошадь с сердцем». Влияние кобылы акцептора на вынашивание плода обязательно отразится на рождённом жеребёнке.
Кроме того, чистокровное коннозаводство, обслуживая интересы «высшего света», обязано занимать достойную нишу на рынке класса «люкс».
Внедрение современных технологий в коннопроизводство приведёт к первоначальному росту объёма производства и сопутствующему ему падению среднего качества и цены на продукцию. Ахалтекинские лошади станут доступными широким слоям населения. Куда заведёт сие благое намерение? Прежде всего, ахалтекинское коннозаводство потеряет сектор рынка класса «люкс», а рынок потребителей «среднего» класса занят массой лошадей полукровных пород, которые неизмеримо больше отвечают их потребностям и желаниям. На рынке «среднего» класса культивируемое чистокровным коннозаводством понятие «дух» становится нежелательным элементом. Да и стоит ли в этом случае, работая, по сути, на рынке полукровных пород сильно беспокоиться о чистоте происхождения. Например, чистокровная английская лошадь, попадая на рынок полукровных лошадей, как правило, стоит значительно дешевле последних.
То есть, это классический пример перепроизводства с последующим кризисом.
Настоящей статьёй мы предлагаем задуматься всех заинтересованных лиц перед выбором. Либо нам сохранить древние традиции чистокровного коннозаводства, либо занять место в ряду многочисленных полукровных, спортивных пород в развитии селекционных признаков которых, мы серьёзно отстали.

Леонид Бабаев

4. Leonid09/25/2005 15:03:47
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Искусственное осеменение – благо или зло?
Ахалтекинская порода лошадей, несмотря на всё большее распространение в мире, по-прежнему является породой с ограниченным генофондом. На протяжении всего ХХ столетия маточное поголовье породы не превышало 1000 голов, а большую часть века колебалось вокруг 500 голов. Искусственное осеменение, в традиционном смысле применяемое для широкого использования какого-либо производителя, может привести к сужению генетического потенциала породы и к повышению вероятности инбридинг депрессии. Поэтому вопрос о широком применении искусственного осеменения в ахалтекинском коннозаводстве никогда не стоял прежде. Несколько по-другому этот вопрос встал тогда, когда был разработан метод хранения глубокозамороженной спермы. Появилась возможность использования спермы выдающихся производителей при значительном удалении конных заводов между собой и при длительной её транспортировке. Кроме того, сперма выдающихся производителей редких пород могла храниться годы и десятилетия. Эта идея для ахалтекинской породы начала реализовываться в конце 70-х начале 80-х годов, когда во ВНИИ коневодства была положена на хранение сперма Халифа, Карата, Арарата, Гомона и Адата. Долгое время эта сперма была невостребованной, и лишь в конце 90-х годов были получены первые жеребята от этих производителей, давно уже павших.
В связи с расширением зоны разведения ахалтекинской породы лошадей вопрос об использовании искусственного осеменения встал на рубеже веков достаточно остро. В апреле 2000 года на Всемирном Конгрессе по ахалтекинскому коннозаводству в Ашхабаде, где присутствовали также делегаты из России (Т. Н. Рябова и Л. И. Бабаев), было принято решение запретить искусственное осеменение с 2001 года. Вместе с тем все полученные до 2001 года от искусственного осеменения жеребята признавались и регистрировались наряду с полученными от естественной случки.
В апреле 2001 года на очередном всемирном конгрессе в Ашхабаде без участия делегатов из России неожиданно было принято новое решение – разрешить использование искусственного осеменения для всех стран, кроме России и Туркмении на 10 лет.
ВНИИ коневодства, курирующий выпуск племенной книги в России, не считает оба решения легитимными, о чём неоднократно было сообщено в прессе и в интернете.
У сторонников и противников искусственного осеменения есть свои аргументы, причём весьма весомые.
Первые апеллируют к невозможности всем коннозаводчикам приобрести для использования действительно выдающихся производителей и указывают на значительное удаление одних конзаводов от других.
Вторые считают, что применение искусственного осеменения приведёт к значительному обеднению генофонда породы, что недопустимо. Не секрет также, что широкое распространение искусственного осеменения ведет к значительному уменьшению спроса на жеребцов-производителей, а, следовательно, и к проблемам сбыта.
Решение по этому вопросу может быть принято только с учётом мнения всех ахалтекинских коннозаводчиков России. Очень важным моментом я считаю дальнейшее согласование этого решения с коннозаводчиками других стран, в первую очередь с Туркменистаном. До окончательного согласования решения я считал бы правильным соблюдение моратория на любое искусственное осеменение в ахалтекинской породе.
Большую пользу для выработки собственного мнения можно было бы извлечь, сравнивая положение дел в чистокровной верховой породе с полностью запрещённым искусственным осеменением, с положением дел в рысистом коннозаводстве, где искусственное осеменение широко применяется.
А. С. Климук
Главный зоотехник по коннозаводству
Ставропольского конзавода.

5. maria09/25/2005 17:19:01

Hello, everyone,

I will do my best to translate both articles by the end of the week. I should have done it years ago...

Maria

6. Blanca09/26/2005 08:01:08

I think Klimuk's article has already been translated

7. Todd Keith09/26/2005 10:27:43
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/

Translated from Russian by: Maria Marquise

The Akhal-Teke breed, despite the increase in numbers world wide, remains a breed with a limited gene pool. For the duration of the 20th century the total numbers of broodmares was under 1000 and most of the time averaged around 500. AI, which in its traditional form is used to widen the opportunity to breed from a particular stallion, can result in the narrowing of the genetic potential of the breed and increase the possibility of inbreeding depression. For this reason, the question of a wide-ranging use of AI in AT horse breeding was never previously under discussion. The angle on this had changed with the development of the method to preserve semen in deep-frozen form. This method has made possible for geographically removed-from-each-other breeding centres to use exceptional stallions, without the quality of semen being affected by transportation. It also made possible to keep semen of from rare-breed animals for years and decades. This idea was beginning to be put into practice in the late 1970s-early 1980s when the semen of such exceptional stallions as Khalif, Karat, Ararat, Gomon and Adat, was placed for safe-keeping at the All-Union Research Institute of Horse breeding. For a long time the semen was just kept there and not utilised, and only at the end of 1990s there were foals born by these stallions who died long time ago.

As the AT breeding has widened geographically, the question of AI has become all-important at the turn of the millennium. In April 2000 at the International Congress for AT horse breeding in Ashkabad where delegates from Russia were also present (T.N. Riabova and L.I. Babaev), a decision was taken to ban AI from 2001. At the same time, all the foals born up to 2001 as a result of AI were admitted into the Stud Book on the same conditions as those born by the tradition breeding method.

In April 2001 at the next International Congress in Ashkabad where the Russian delegates were not present a sudden new decision was taken - to allow the use of AI for all countries other than Russia and Turkmenistan for 10 years.

VNIIK who controls the publication of the General Stud Book in Russia, does not regard either decision as legitimate - the position which has been made public repeatedly in the press and on the internet. The advocates and opponents of AI have their own legitimate reasons for and against AI, in both cases well-argued.

The former highlight the fact that breeders have limited possibilities to acquire and use really special breeding stallions and highlight the difficulties of transporting animals between breeding farms which are very far away from each other.

The latter feel that the use of AI will lead to the narrowing of the breed gene pool which is quite unacceptable. It is also no secret that a wide use of AI will lead to the fall in demand for breeding stallions and therefore to falling sales.

A decision on this issue can only be arrived at by taking into account the opinions of all the AT breeders in Russia. I also feel it essential that a full consultation with breeders in other countries is conducted, particularly with Turkmenistan. Until this issue is fully explored and agreed upon I would consider it right that AI should not be allowed in AT breeding.

It would be useful to examine other breeds' practices when considering the issue in AT breeding, for example at the English Thoroughbred where AI is completely banned and at the Trotting breeds where AI is widely used.

A. Klimuk, the Senior Breeding Specialist at the Stavropol Horse breeding farm.

8. Todd Keith09/26/2005 14:50:08
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/

Just a few thoughts,
Re-reading A. Klimuk's article, I understand his thoughts and concerns.
What I would like to see is a highly restricted use of AI.
I would want to limit the sires that can be used as well as the number of mares that can be inseminated per year from these sires. I'd want to limit the sires available to sires that are PROVEN improvers in the breed with very good type and conformation. I would also want to limit semen from only living sires. Once a sire dies, it's semen should be destroyed. The breed has not been improved in the west and needs an injection of good "blood". One way would be to get access to some of the improvers in Russia/Turkmenistan. Yes, you can buy a son of one of these improvers but that is still a shot in the dark as you never know the breeding value of a stallion until he is used for breeding... As for embryo transfer, I see really no reason to use it. With the exception to maybe Pampa, there aren't any broodmares out there that should produce more offspring than they can themselves. The question of AI is more important for us in the west than in the CIS as the quality and quantity of good breeding animals is higher than what is available in the west.

Todd

9. maria09/26/2005 17:37:25

All

That Klimuk article was a different article! I did translate it but it's not either of the one Lenia posted!

Watch this space.

Maria

10. maria09/26/2005 17:58:29

OK, it was the same one. I am clearly loosing my marbles - and my Russian. What confused me is that there are two articles on Lenia's site, one of which he posted on the blog but they are both quite interesting. Anyway, a good night's sleep for the translator!

11. Leonid09/27/2005 02:31:38
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

I want to ask you everybody. Why you breed Akhalteke horses? For what? and what is the image where you want go? You are don't race, you have not rings. I can not find akhalteke horses between best sport horses of the world. Finaly most of you are amateurs without correct aim of breeding. It is your hobby. Why you promote rules for russian and turcmenian breeders wich have clear aims. Let be with us, in our society. We produce more then 80% of world quontity, please cooperate with us, we are open. You can organize races out of Russia, show-rings, promote classic sports. But ussialy you by cheapest horses and then try to clone them. The movement of horses goes from East to West and we can don't notice horses wich you breed without heavy tolls, but it is not good. We are bearers of traditions, wellcome to us.
Еxcuse me for sharp wards, but I said, that other think.

12. Blanca09/27/2005 07:31:19

I agree with the use of AI on a restricted basis. Actually, the question of the use of the stallions is at the basis of the problem.
In the serious breeds, only approved/licensed stallions and mares can breed.

Within the AT breed, it seems that any stallion can breed. And this everywhere, including Russia. But aparently, nobody is interested in this problem: neither the breeders, not the Maak. I mean, there is only ONE person who can come every year to examine the prospective stallions here in Europe. We have been lucky and this person -Ryabova- has been twice this year here. She could even have come a third time for the Gut ising championship but aparently some people in the German Association were not happy with it. So she didn't come.

Anyway, going back to the problem, how could we have a system of approved stallions here in the West if there is only 1 person who can come to "give" the licenses and this person is getting old and busy?. So if we don't have a system of approved stallions, how can we have a system of approved semen?.

The ideal scenario would be to have these approved stallions and to use them either live, if possible, and if not, through AI. Only in this way we could enlarge the gene pool of the AT population here in Europe. We need Russian, Kazakh and Turkmen blood and we need also to encourage ourselves to go to see what our neighbours have within Europe. European stallions could be better used if matched with the mares which really match them and not necessarily with the breeders own mares.

That would be useful, all the more since it is forbiden to import frozen semen from any country of the former USSR, Russia included, and it will be for a while.

13. Todd Keith09/27/2005 09:06:30
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/

Blunt words Leonid, but very truthful!
I look forward to the day we will have a REAL world championship with REAL champions from around the world competing for the title (Racing, Ring and Sports). Today we have to accept that there is no competition (YET!) outside of CIS.
Blanca, your topic on judges (or judge....) is something I was planning on Blogging about today on my blog (if I get the time).
Todd

14. Todd Keith09/27/2005 10:57:29
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/

Hi Leonid,
One more comment.
I believe you have the same problem with some "new" breeders in Russia as well. Not all Russian breeders have breeding goals! They have the competition from other breeders, the rings and the shows but this doesn't always make them better breeders or understand what they are doing.
Todd

15. Leonid09/27/2005 14:37:24
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

To Blanca. Akhalteke horses can be Sires and broodmares by birthright. About judges. Why you wait Ryabova? Necessary to sertificate 10-15 persons for judging and to invite them through MAAK, wich we need to do democratic. When Todd and Jessica invited us to Sweden, we were judges.
To Todd. What means CIS? Yes ofcourse, it is big problem new breeders in Russia too. One hopeless, that they will become older or will disappear.

16. Lisa Belhage09/27/2005 14:45:00

Hi Leonid,
Does being a judge at a show mean the same thing as being able to do the official grading that ends up on the horse's papers? Were the "gradings" you and Klimuk did in Sweden official in that way?

-Lisa

17. Jessica 09/27/2005 14:54:43

The question if the radings and judgeing is official or not is not decided by the judges. In the case of the Swedish Show the results are official. The results will not be entered into the mother stud book though.

18. Leonid09/27/2005 15:01:03
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

It is must decide MAAK, not Ryabova. Take your rules in your hands.

19. Jessica 09/27/2005 21:59:50

Leonid's comments from the 25th translated to English by Maria Marquise, Maria thank you very much for your help with the translations!

Unique Responsibilities of Purebreeding

“… The status of purebred places a unique responsibility on those who work with this breed. Scrupulous registration of breeding stock, the strict tracing of parentage and regular publishing of stud books constitute the bare minimum within a selection and breeding programme….”

A. Klimuk


It is obvious that the concept of “pure blood” is not a scientific term but a consequence of a traditional view about horses, as it developed through time. Purity [of blood] is, first and foremost, a spirit, a tradition which came about in the course of history, as a result of cultural and philosophical development of the human race. In general, purity is a philosophical concept. Human society, as it developed, became stratified, split into social groups and casts in accordance with their social status and occupation, thus creating a hierarchical order. Every social group created, and continues to create objects which underpin its survival. The higher casts, those who occupy the uppermost rungs of the social ladder, are compelled to surround themselves with objects which aid and enhance their spirit, power and influence. Horses, without a doubt, are amongst the status symbols of humanity. Human “elite” needed, and continues to need the best, the fastest, the bravest horses, i.e. the purebred horses. Thus, a cast of elite horses was born, destined to serve the interests of the human social elite. Whether we like it or not – this is the reality of human history out of which the traditional concept of “pure blood” was born.

“Pure blood” is more ancient, more traditional concept than “closed studbook”. Without a doubt, the tradition of purebreeding developed over time and purebred horses were being entered into studbooks, not the other way around: horses in studbooks came to be called pure.

Therefore, the book into which purebred horses are entered should possess the status of a Holy Book and its role is to preserve the purity not only of the formal parentage but also of the spirit and tradition of purebreeding. Without the thorough understanding of these principles, purebreeding threatens to turn into a production line, a conveyor belt carrying numbered output.

The tradition of purebreeding is obliged to preserve in the strictest fashion the ancient ways and rituals we inherited from our ingenious ancestors who succeeded in polishing this magic diamond we now call a purebred horse. The English breeders understood well such truths and surrounded the English Thoroughbred in a web of ancient ritual.

The fate of the most ancient of the pure breeds – the Akhal-Teke – was not so fortunate in the 20th century. Revolutionary collisions which shook Russia destroyed the many centuries of social order. In the aftermath of destruction there was no time for guarding the ancient Turkmen tradition of horse breeding. Influenced by the fashion of the time, a massive programme of crossing the breed with the English Thoroughbred was undertaken. Fortunately, the experiment was not completed and cross-bred horses were, for the most part, discarded. Nevertheless, Ak-Belek line, to our great shame, goes back to its “English” founder, Fortingbrass. It took much time and effort for the Akhal-Teke breeders to persuade the global equine community that the Akhal-Teke have not lost its purebred status.

The 21st century prepared a new blow to the principles and tradition of purebreeding. It is the new technologies, introduced by the scientific commiunity into modern horse breeding, more precisely: artificial insemination with frozen semen, embryo transfer and cloning. Where will these technologies lead us? First and foremost, to the loss of the unique spirit of purebreeding.

Film and photography are powerless in capturing the subtle nuances of the stallion’s character, the stages of his development and maturity, the quality of his movements, Selection based on the use of images will encourage amelioration [or mediocrity] of selection principles. A photograph can never reflect the full range of merits and flaws in a horse. A breeder who thus attempts to create a horse is a blind man attempting to polish a diamond. It will lead the disappearance of the precious-to-breeders term “horse with a big heart”. A mare carrying a transferred embryo will without a doubt stamp the foal born out of her.

Besides, purebreeding – as it serves the interests of the “upper classes”, is obliged to occupy a worthy place in the “luxury goods” market. The introduction of modern technologies into horse breeding will lead to the initial surge in the production output and the lowering of the average standards and price. The Akhal-Teke horses will become accessible to the wide-range of the general public. Whereto will this noble intention lead us?

First of all, the Akhal-Teke breeding will loose the “luxury” sector of the market and will have to face the wider “medium-range” market which is occupied by a swarm of partbreds who are immesuarably better suited to its needs and demands. In the “medium-range” market the concept of “spirit”, nurtured in a purebred horse, becomes an undesirable element. And in any case, is there any point – if one panders to the demands of warmblood market – in bothering so much about purity? For example, the English Thoroughbred which finds its way to the general riding horse, as a rule, fetches a much lower price than the warmbloods. It is a classic example of over-production with the resultant economic crisis.

In this article, we are inviting all interested parties to ponder a choice they are facing: will we manage to preserve the ancient tradition of pure breeding or slot into the long list of numerous general sportshorse’ breeds whose development and selection has continued apace and left us well behind.

Leonid Babaev

20. Jessica 09/27/2005 22:12:33

Leonid, I have tried to work with MAAK as a breeder from outside Russia as well as a president for a breed association outside Russia and feel that I cannot spend more time to work with MAAK as they lack functions that are fundamental for an international breeders association. I attended the Ashgabad meeting in 2000 and my experience of the meeting was that issues that was supposed to be discussed where not prepared or presented properly to us that attended and that any decisions that where made where made from thin air only. Like in most cases when it comes to this breed and VNIIK and MAAK reliable statistics is missing. We can be of different cultures and of different mentalities and breeding philosophies but we still need some sort of basic facts that we can use to make our decisions from.
I did for long hope, and worked for a democratic and modern MAAK but have since a few years decided to spend my efforts elsewhere. I agree with you that we should take things more in our own hands and not anymore wait for MAAK to anyting that would objectively promote the breed. There are too many hidden agendas with those who have empowered themselves via MAAK, and the progrees and well-being of the Akhal-Teke breed is since long forgotten.

21. Todd Keith09/27/2005 22:13:01
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/

Leonid,
CIS in English is the Commonwealth of Independent States.
At present the CIS unites: Azerbaijan, Armenia, Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Ukraine.
What is it call in Russian??
Todd

22. Leonid09/28/2005 02:15:22
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Necessary to create new world organization with international book and rules. Besides that soon we lost turcmenian part of breed, becourse they closed for international relatives and control.

23. Leonid09/28/2005 02:19:33
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

By russian this is СНГ.

24. Blanca09/28/2005 05:53:06

Leonid, I'm surprised to read from a brilliant breeder like you that "Akhalteke horses can be Sires and broodmares by birthright". I'm sure that, to make the excellent products you're doing now, you don't use any stallion or any mare but you're rather making a fine selection. Or do you mean that any stallion can produce well if matched with the right mare? Please explain...

As for the judges, I'm not waiting for Ryabova. It is the National associations which get Ryabova when, I guess, applying to Maak to have somebody to judge. The problem is that the system is so un-transparent and close that people -me, among them- ignore there could be a committee, or other people who might come to judge to Europe. If I were a national association I would do like Jessica and Todd, invite you and Sacha, but I understand that the unexpereinced national associations are afraid of doing things out of the "official track".

You wrote a very interesting article, Leonid. By the way, it explains the main difference between the CIS ("SNG") and the West: here, the ATs are not considered luxury articles for which to spend thousands of Euros. Breeders here are not backed by a millionaire class of new Russians, Kazakhs or Azeris.
Here if millionaires want to spend their money they buy a Dali painting or a super dressage mare which can in her turn bring lots of money from championships and foals. It is sad, this makes an enormous difference in the modus operandi. Although I agree that serious work should be done in either case to preserve and improve the breed. Only that for us it is a bit more difficult...

25. Leonid09/28/2005 06:49:55
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Blanca, only breeder can decide use this horses in breeding or not, and races, rings or customers can determe his work. This is pureblood philisophy. I decided to use such horses, you can have another decision. Market will determ.

I think you have to press your National associations, and they must press MAAK and finaly to change situation.

Necessary to create this image, to work about this. Here is "Millionaire fair" in Moscow. And the stand of our horses was bigger then mercedes. We must to create moda.

26. Lisa Belhage09/28/2005 07:40:24

Hi Leonid,

You appear to be in the lucky situation that there are plenty of wealthy customers for the horses you produce. But what happens to those horses? Do those newly rich people collecting akhal tekes as status symbols use these horses for anything other than decoration? Do they go on to breed them (with any kind of goal or breeding plan)? Do they have any kind of understanding of the work that you, as a breeder, have put in to producing such an animal? Does that make any difference to them?

In that way, isn't it a kind of dead end? These are fantastic, athletic and charismatic creatures. They have a lifespan of 25 + years. What happens to them after the appeal wears off, or the vet bills get unpleasant, or the interest changes?

We in the west are not accustomed to this kind of customer, for better or for worse.

Cheers, Lisa

27. Jessica 09/28/2005 08:16:35

The rubbish about people that can afford to buy quality horses and care for them and therebye promote the positive development of a breed would be bad for the horses do not belong in my blog. The people that believe that the not rich understands more about breeding or take better care of their horses I think believe in Santa Claus too. What have the middle class done to develop the warmbloods, the Arabians and the TBs to what they are today.
I do hope that the quality buyers will be attracted to the AT breed too. This we can only achieve with hard work and the promotion of the quality horse. The people that want to develop a niche to breed for the not so rich because these people "understand" the breed better can go somewhere else and do their work, not here.
Leonid, big congratulations to your success in the Millionaires Fair! And thank you from us here as breeders, for your work promoting the elite breed to the elite people.

Blocked Response!09/28/2005 10:06:02

This response from IP Address was blocked by the owner of this blog.

29. Leonid09/28/2005 14:59:27
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

When we created our Stud 1991 my country was below ziro. We waked up at 5 o'clock and standed on a waiting list for petrol. We had joke: " host asks guest: "Do you want tea with sugar? Yes. So let wash hands without soap". Mino Denti saw our stable at the moment of buying they was distruct. It is about our lucky situation. I don't say about crime time wich we lived in 90th.
When people by horses from me, they invest in my Stud, and money wich they pay compel them to respect this horses. Even this horses are decoration only it is perfect. But my costomers ride them, keep race and sport department, take participate in rings and they are happy. But my bissines to breed high class horses becourse I can do it.

30. Leonid09/28/2005 15:02:12
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Thank you very much Jessica.

31. Jessica 09/28/2005 15:31:05

Leonid I am not sure if it is the right way to go to create a new association to replace a dysfunctional association. It is a lot of work and who will do it.
It is also a serious threat to the breed if the Turkmen horses are closed out from the mother studbook (genepool) in the future.
I really, really hope that a lot of efforts are made to make shure that this will not happen.
A split among breeders in different countries will damage the breed and make it less successful. Communication among the serious breeders that are committed to breeding quality Akhal-Tekes will hopefully also help to stop the charlatans that exist in this breed.

32. Leonid09/28/2005 15:42:33
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Let's go will change MAAK. I am ready. Let consist list of changes and correct rights and force Tatiana to recieve them.

33. Jessica09/28/2005 15:48:15

Ok Lets get started with the list, I will create a new subject in my blog called the wish list to MAAK and we can get started to compile a list that can be presented to Tatyana Ryabova.

34. Lisa Belhage09/28/2005 15:48:25

Leonid,

You sell your horses, presumably for good prices, to the russians who can afford them. That income supports your farm and furthers your ability to continue breeding good horses. That is absolutely fair and good and beyond criticism. And I am very glad to know that your and your farm have survived the desperate times and are now thriving and continuing to produce beautiful examples of the breed.

I did not mean to imply with my previous comment that you should not sell your horses, or get the best possible prices for them. My concern was with the perception of the breed and purchase of a horse purely as a status symbol, without anything more than a superficial interest in the animal inside the beautiful skin. In the US there have been a number of dog breeds, for instance, theat have gone through this status/fashion cycle and it has definitely not been to the benefit of the breed in the long run. However, if your customers are horse people who are using them, enjoying them, caring for them, then as you say yourself - BRAVO!

-Lisa

35. Leonid09/29/2005 01:15:29
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Lisa, not everybody ofcourse, but most of them. Don't forget about hippodrom, wich compels breeders to produce realy powerfull horses. Be sure, we are not poodle breeders.

36. Lisa Belhage09/29/2005 01:29:10

Don't worry Leonid, I would never mistake your horses for poodles!!!

-Lisa

37. Leonid09/29/2005 01:56:33
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Thank you Lisa.

38. Jessica09/29/2005 06:56:36

Blanca I looked at the Spanish horse breeds, as I understand they do a grading of every animal much the same as VNIIK. The big difference is that if the animal gets points above a certain level, say above 7 for each judgement criteria, it doesn't get elite like with VNIIK, they get approval for breeding. The most usual reason for Spanish horses do not get breeding approval is the size, they are too small. Also the studbook number of the horse is changed to roman digits once it is approved for breeding. I like that system. Have I understood it correctly?

39. Blanca09/29/2005 07:51:34

Jessica, honestly, no idea, I'm not in contact with the PRE system. Because I guess you mean that studbook, don't you?

40. maria09/29/2005 19:13:30

Aren't poodles meant to be the most intelligent of all dog breeds? (As well as most jumpy - like someone we once met in cold Sweden).

Powerful? - yes! but what perfect poodles some of these horses bred by Leonid are, ideal companions to a non-breeder, one-horse owners like myself! How wonderfully sociable, forever curious and inventive an unlikely-to-be-approved stallion can be!

41. Jessica 09/30/2005 12:38:28

I would say that Standard poodles sometimes are as misunderstood as Tekes! They are athletic, easy to train and people lovers. But some people do not think that they look like dogs (again the giraffe syndrome), the breeder of our poodle was so happy that we bought her only to love and spoil her!
I also hope that we have herebye ended the debate about who has the right to own a Teke and what owners are supposed to do with their Tekes to be "approved". Love and spoil your Tekes and do feel good about it, I do.
And I'm not at all ashamed or have complexes for the fact that I do not show any of my Tekes in the Olympics. I am actually considering to make room on my blog for essays and or photos about the Akhal-Tekes and their owners and how they spend their favourite time together. Owning a horse have so many dimensions, the bonding, the quiet walk together, the pulse and adrenaline when you compete, the soft mussle on your cheek when you feel sad. The miracle when a foal is born. The feeling of fulfillment when you train a horse and everything works out the way you want and more and more.

42. Jessica 09/30/2005 12:46:16

I forgot to add, I developed a philosophy already in early ages. The head of the horse is not considered to be that important for performance abilities, this is a part of having been brought up in a warmblood mentality, with a little sidetracking into the very competetive Trotting world. My philosophy though, have been that if you spend all that time on your horse, no matter how good or bad your horse is in competition, you will have to see it every day, and a beautiful face that meets you in the stables will at least make you happy every day you see your horse, no matter how the nag performs later on.