1. Leonid02/15/2006 01:22:35
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

I have some another opinoion. We must speed to breed horse of high level riding, becouse average horses will get in a big number. If we will speed to get horses for average rider, we will get horses for nothing.
If we want to multiply average riders, like our stategy market, we must show them riding of high level with teke.

2. nathalie02/17/2006 12:16:12

I think that the akhal teke market could be very similar to arabian horse market. They are used for speed races, endurance and beauty. Arabian horse market has been developed in this way : speed races , endurance races and show. There are for professional, and also for leisure. It could be a very good idea to develop teke races on the track and also championship to conservate the type : type and performance are very important as it has been for a long time in Turkmenistan.
I think it would be a bad think to develop teke for jumping or dressage because it is not the real akhal teke and if you want to perform you have to improve the teke in this way so you modify the breed
and concerning average rider I think that there are the real market because there are very few champions and a lot of average horses or rider ; that's the reality in all sports
but these champions promote the breed and average riders buy.

3. Heather Mahoney02/17/2006 13:43:04

I have admired Kara Kum AT's for sometime, and have enjoyed following you discussions. It is good to encourage an open dialogue, whether in agreement of not, because this is the way in which a strong community of Akhal-Teke promoters is developed outside their native region. I have to say that I stand somewhere between the viewpoints of the previous two comments. I very much agree that the original type of the Teke should not be compromised in order to develop a more "sporthorse" like performance horse, even if that resulted in greater success in certain disciplines. As a prospective buyer of an AT, I am not looking for a warmblood or expecting a horse that will perform like one. There are other qualities that attract me to this breed. A buyer or breeder that says, "This horse could go further in dressage if it was just a little more like a 'fill in the blank'" is shopping the wrong area. I think it is vastly important to, as the first post says, have confidence in the natural qualities of the breed and promote those, instead of attempting to shape it into something else entirely to attain success. As an example, you see in the US, a trend to breeding Friesians with sporty conformations. Gorgeous horses, no doubt, and more successful in dressage. But there is very little of the original Baroque style in many of them. They have become warmbloods with long hair and fetlocks, and they should not be marketed as "authentic friesians" because they do not represent the historical type or physique of the breed. It does not mean they should not exist or be enjoyed, but I disagree that their success should be held up as one of the focus points of marketing within the breed.

SO, how this relates to AT's? I do think that the Akhal Teke can be more than just an average rider's horse, and I agree that for marketing, it is important to have, as Leonid said, "riding of a high level" because that is what develops interest in the breed and shows the ultimate potential of the horse. However, rather than rushing to breed an animal capable of the highest levels of performance in a desired discipline, I think I'd rather see Tekes attain greatness and garner attention in areas related to their natural abilities, that allow us to maintain the classic AT type. For instance, an AT my not win Dressage at Devon, but I'll bet a well trained one could have a serious shot at the coveted Tevis Cup of the endurance world.

Last comment (I know I can be long winded) - in regards to the previously posted comment, that if a breeder is working to create living "art" then they have use of whatever genetic material is out there, I must strongly disagree with this. A defect (whether embodied in a beautiful horse or not) is a defect, and should not be propogated in the breed. I find little value in an aesthetically superior horse, that is genetically disposed to developing arthritis at a young age. Creating something beautiful is a nice goal, but when it is at the expense (or longevity) of the animal, I think the intentions must be reevaluated. Like the beautiful refined straight Egyptian arabian of a careless breeding program, that suffers respiratory problems from such a deeply dished nose, a beautiful typey Akhal Teke that posseses serious defects does not contribute to the future or the reputation of the breed.

Again, I've enjoyed watching the evolution of these discussions, and hope they keep coming!

4. Leonid02/17/2006 14:36:36
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Teke horses have much more possibilities then arabians and must use in classic kinds of sport. This potential is inside teke breed and breeders must suppose this qualities. It is nonsence, that they have become like warmbloods. You have to know, that warmblood breeders regulary pour to them horses pure blood for looking like akhalteke, arab or thoroughbred. It is base, that warmbloods speed to look like this noble breeds. And they are very successfully on this way. By the way two akhalteke foals won kerung in Germany between all sports breed. Between them Fatykh (Feysal-Pampa) is very typical.
About defects. Any selectionist so he is selectionist and he has right to work for meat-packing plant for the sake of getting of one brilliant. Our customers are free and has eyes. They can by our production or not. So our horses has races on the track, wich examinate them by the defects. Hippodrome is litmus paper.

5. Heather Mahoney02/17/2006 15:16:01

I like your litmus paper metaphore. However, let me clarify that I said that the Friesian horse of "sportier" conformation has become like warmbloods to a certain degree, not AT's, and my primary point is that that I would hate to see Western breeders do this with the Akhal Teke.
Secondly, let me point out that I am a novice to the Akhal Teke breed in general, and am still learning much about the breed's history and potential. I am always willing to be educated by experienced breeders, because it is important to me to develop a real understanding of the current status of the breed, it's development, and its future potential. Thanks for your response. Insight of any kind is always appreciated.

6. Leonid02/18/2006 01:54:41
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Every side is right on this way. We need in any tipe of akhalteke horses. Shamborount kept together with brilliant Yuldus such simple Sires like Ametist (record 2000m-2'11,5), Opal (1800m-1'57), Kaltaman (1600-1'43,6). He kept grey Posman wich was derbist and very good show-jumping horse (participient of national events) and was very simple too. Fakir Pelwan founder of hiself line and father of this prominent Sires was very simple. He used them very wide. Lugovskoy tryed to produce sport kind of teke horses, but everytime they pour blood of Shamborount stile horses. So they put Garem and then Gaukhar, perhaps most important Sires in the breed. From simple Ametist Shamborount got champ of the breed Derbent, From simple Opal he put super type Omar and Ayghytly, wich is father of Yanardag simbol of Turkmenistan.
We need to look not only type and exterior, but interior too.
In any way, if I have horse with heaps of defects and running 2400m for 2'41, I shell use him at once.
We have only one general reason to use any teke horse, that must be pure teke. Second reason is our volition.
Determination of champs must be sum of subjective decisions of experts wich have authority in our society and we must choose them like judges.

7. Jessica 02/20/2006 16:39:54

I think it is important to maintain the diversity among horse breeds. No one can tell what the future needs from the equestrian community will be.
To modify a cultural breed for todays' needs is irresponsable and as I mentioned before we must look for a balance between the breeders that work for maintaining and improving type and those who modify for todays' fashion or market.
I have unlike Leonid seen quite a few Tekes that have had to be pointed out to me as Tekes because they looked so much like mainstream warmbloods. NONE of this "paper Tekes" had any performances even worth mentioning.
When I was a young girl I had a dream to once own and ride a golden Akhal-Teke stallion, thanks to generations of dedicated breeders I could find my golden stallion.
Todays' and tomorrow's generations also have the right to enjoy all the unique Teke features that made us all fall for the breed.
Breeding for type and conservation does not mean that these typical horses cannot perform, Tekes are athletes, and should be tested for their constitution, may it be the race track, the endurance competitions, dressage or show jumping.

A Teke is not only a look it is also an ability to perform.

However, it pointless to set up impossible goals for a breed, the Grand Prix dressage and Grand Prix Show Jumping is not designed for Tekes, it is designed, in detail, for another horse breed.
If we want to compete and even stand a chance to win, we compete with the popularity of other cultural breeds, the Iberian horse, the Icelandic horse, the Arabian horse, here is where we compete, in producing typical Tekes that can be proud representatives of the breed.
Let's look at the Teke vs warmbloods from another point of view,
the Tekes have many strong point worth saving compared to warmbloods;
they are very comfortable to ride, they are not crossed with carriage horses for high knees but bred for a long time for being comfortable to ride.
Riding a Teke in all gaits is a true joy and you can actually sit down in the trot without bouncing all over the place.
The jump over fences is smooth and soft, they are much easier to follow in the jump than many warmbloods that might sometimes throw you out of the saddle.
Trailriding is not only comfortable the well bred and typical Teke is curious and by nature forward thinking no-nonsense horses.
The light and easy step of the Tekes does not leave a trace, they do not tear up pastures or trails like the warmbloods. The are more cat like in that way.
The Tekes are set up for going long distances, they are normally not too hot on the bit but more focused on working for a longer time.
The Tekes have a heart of gold and are very forgiving to their riders, they can take hard hands, unbalanced riders without loosing their patience, many riders that would have been thrown off by an "electric" warmblood can feel really good on their Teke.
And last but not least they have an exceptional ability to bond with their handler/rider/trainer and many of them actually walk through fire for their master and not walk right over them like warmbloods do.

8. Todd Keith02/21/2006 13:43:18
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com

Leonid,
One thing that Shamborant had that MANY western breeders do not is good broodmares! Shamborant knew how to line breed and inbreed to create better horses than the simple sire. If you look at Omar, for example, he is line bred on Fakir-Sulu, El and Ovgan.
Aigitly a close 3-3 inbreeding on Fakir-Sulu! (I still would like to see Alada before he dies).
Another difference is that larger stud farms like youself can test combinations easier. You yourself have 5-6 sires. A new combination is easier for you to do (for improvement) than smaller farms with say, with only one sire used year after year (no possibility for improvement).
Of course a good horse has many traits. I would like to have a Teke that jumps at Grand Prix level. I would like to have a Teke that looks like Yulduz. I would LOVE to have a Teke that is BOTH!

9. Leonid02/21/2006 14:25:46
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Absolutly so. But look race results of this Sires. They are fantastic. No one from modern breeders can not create horse with such results. Shamborount was realy great. Today we can breed horses of super type level, but we something lost in interior of horses. So we try to use quite wide race champs like Alwan, Dagomys, Paradox, Paykend, Kepderi.