According to the regulations of the General studbook (published by the Ministry of Agriculture of Russia), only stallions that are approved for A.I. by the selection center can produce offspring for the closes studbook.

I see quite a few stallions offered by A.I. here in the US and also in Europe but I have not seen any of them advertised as approved A.I. stallions by the selection center. I think it would be nice to see a list published on the www.maakcenter.org of the stallions that are approved to produce horses for the General Studbook by A.I. I'm sure that mare owners are very keen on making sure that the A.I. stallion they select are approved by the selection center.

I also read on Todd's blog that there is semen kept in the institute I guess that means the VNIIK from Yazpolad. My question is if Yazpolad is approved for A.I.as he is a cryptorchid. According to one article published on the Russian maak.ru the VNIIK will from now on not recommend stallions with defects such as cryptorchidism or overbite.

I would appreciate if someone who has access to the A.I. list could publish it here.

1. Todd Keith04/17/2006 17:08:38
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com

Both Gomon and Khalif were also Cryptos as well....

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2. Jessica 04/18/2006 10:06:42

Well, to begin with I think I at least would be very grateful for a list of approved A.I. stallions, if they have known defects such as cryptorchidism, overbites and severe defects in the legs and feet I think at least those defects should be listed. This would give breeders that do not want these defects into their breeding programs to select other stallions. That could be a step in the right direction now when VNIIK is prepared to recognise the fact that we have defects in the breed and that it is time to select/recommend for sound and healthy animals for breeding. The signals so far from VNIIK to the Teke breeding community by appointing stallions with defects to world champions has been that defects are not considered a fault in a horse. In this way the defects can spread and it will be more difficult for breeders that want to produce healthy horses to demanding clients more difficult.

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3. Nathalie04/19/2006 04:43:09
Homepage: http://www.alamanstud.com

There is a lot of cryptorchism in the akhal teke breed ! I've also learned that Yanardag is crypto and he can't reproduce. And you told about Peren and Polotli on your blog ?
Is it possible to have a list of cryptos stallions used in the breed ?

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4. Leonid04/19/2006 07:46:39
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

I can not understand, what is the problem of cryptorchism? All milleniums teke breeders used criptos. We use them too. What changed since? From what boundary we became clever?

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5. Severine04/19/2006 14:49:18

Leonid > Maybe that russian breeders used to use crypto stallions, but in France, crypto stallions are not allowed to reproduce, whatever the breed, considering this as a genetical defect. They do not have the agreement by the French National Stud.
The consequence, if you use one of them despite this point, is that the foal will be register as a "saddle horse" (no breed) instead of an "akhal teke" horse, with a big difference of price.
In the same way, if you sell a young stallion with only one ball, the buyer cannot used it for breeding, so won't buy it if it is what he is looking for.
That is why it is so important for us....

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6. Jessica 04/19/2006 15:36:34

The discussion about the different philosophies on the art and science of Teke breeding is so interesting and educational!
We all have different breeding programs and work on different markets, for us at KaraKum we want type, type and more type and we also think that our horses must be sound, sane and saleable as well as fertile, long-lived and athletic. We do not think that cryptorchidism, overbite, severe leg defects and OCD for example benefit the breeding of sound and fertile horses, we are also aware of the fact that many countries do not allow stallions with such defects into national breeding programs, this means that buyers of stallions from these countries will want to make sure that they get fertile and sound breeding material. But again it is up to every breeder's philosophy to decide what animals they use in their breeding program.
If Russian breeders think crypto stallions for example are ok that is not a problem but as MAAK is an international breeders association, it is important that MAAK realises the market conditions outside Russia and publish open information about stallions that have or are known to inherit defects or anomalies that are not allowed to breed for certain members. As long as we are aware of the fact that crypto stallions are frequently used in breeding programs and can make informed decisions I'm fine, then everyone can make their own choice. Horse breeding is unregulated by the state in the USA, many Teke stallion owners market their crypto or other defect stallions for breeding here and I guess they will answer honestly to your questions on the soundness of their breeding horses. So obviously many breeders in this country feel that it is ok the breed crypto stallions in their own breeding programs as well as offer them to other mare owners. As long as people can make informed decisions it is ok, we live in a free world. I would want to say though, why settle for one when you can have two

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7. Todd Keith04/19/2006 17:16:44
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/

Nathalie,
I don't remember Yanardag being a crypto. He did have a slight over bite and is sterile though. Peren was a crypto, never heard that Polotli was though, I don't think he was.
Todd

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8. Blanca04/20/2006 04:07:40

Interesting what you say about the US, Jessica.

Anyway, what are the problems/drawbacks of a crypto? It is simply a matter of infertility?

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9. Leonid04/20/2006 04:44:56
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Severine, the rules of breeding are instalated in General Studbook. I can not understand how can your country to instalate another rules. It is the local term of your country. And I can not believe that you have such rules in the case of thoroughbred breed. I can not imagine person, who will come to our Stud to count balls. I think it is question of negotiations between local breeders and Ministry. I can say that Boynaw was crypto, so 90% of breed have defect.
Only three nations created pure blood breed, becouse did't count balls. Why we must do another.

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10. Tabitha04/20/2006 06:38:28

Dear Leonid,

As far as I know (I could be wrong haven't checked the regulations yet) breeding with chriptorchids is not allowed in the entire EU (so France is not alone in this matter). I'll go check this somewhere this/coming week..

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11. Jessica 04/20/2006 08:33:35

Leonid. Many countries, like Russia, consider horse breeding being of a national interest, this originated in the use of horses in warfare. If a country makes rules for what horses can be bred these rules must be respected by other countries. Your studfarm is your kingdom, the Kingdom of Sweden is another kingdom.
Today our countries keep a few horses in the cavalry mostly for show but today we have other national interests in horse breeding. It has quite an economical impact on certain countries as well as the public's increasing interest in animal welfare. Today's national horse breeding rules concern more to produce saleable horses on a very competetive international market, as well as protecting horses from unecessary suffering by living with defects. Cryptorchidism has a proven effect on fertility as the not descended testicle doesn't produce fertile sperm as well as an economical impact as it is much more expensive to geld a crypto stallion. For countries like Holland and Sweden that care very much for soundness and fertility it is out of the question to approve stallions from any breed to be infused in the Swedish horse breeding. Condititions affecting performance such as OCD, severe leg deviations etc are also rules out from the national breeding program. If you look at Sweden from a sport horse perspective the country with the extreme strict rules, with 5% of the sport horse mares in the world has produced such large number of Olympic and international top horses and been on the top ten list of studbooks of sport horse producers for many years, in my opinion Sweden can be proud of not having let the wish to win affect the health and soundness of the horses. This I know is one of the breeding philosophies in the world.
Another one is as long as the horse wins and no one cares what we do to make it win, its ok. And no one is supposed to tell me what I can do and what I cannot do. This philosophy is prevalent in the US horse breeding where freedom and the right to make money on everything and anything is the leading star. Fortunately many breeds in the US have responsable and effective breed associations like the Quarter Horse Association (AQHA) that are now dealing with the HYPP issue (AQHA BTW consider crypto a genetical defect). But in the end it is the breeder that makes the selection and breeding decision, if later on the breed associations approve or cassate certain horses the breeder will be encouraged or discouraged in his work. The breeder will also have to adjust and follow the horse breeding culture and regulations in the country they work in as well as their own morals and ethics.
There will always be horses that cannot be interchanged, like piro positive horses to the US due to national quaranteen rules that are set up to protect US horses as well as horses with crypto and other defects not approved by certain countries.
It was actually a QH stallion that was imported to Europe and approved for breeding, a year after the horse was imported he got problems from his testicle and when he was operated on the vet found a breast implant that replaced the missing testicle, the crypto issue is certainly not an easy one! It is also one of the most easy defect to detect, it is supposed to be two but it is only one and it affects the male fertility, a serious matter I have understood.

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12. Leonid04/20/2006 16:01:28
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

My English is too poor, but I try to say. When russian breeds German shepard, he das it by German rules and standarts. When german breeds akhalteke horses he must do it by rules of General Studbook. Such situation like TB. And local rules can be important in there locations only. For example Northern Dancer was crypto and his blood are use everywhere, most popular in the world. They have prohibition of AI and all world do it.

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13. Leonid04/25/2006 11:00:18
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru

Dear friends, I count that problem of cryptorchism is strained too much. Everybody can use notcryptos especially in the countries with state regulation. (Germany, France and so on). There are a lot of akhalteke sires wich are not cryptos and number of them absolutly bigger then cryptos. I am not think that cryptorchism is good, but if I have notable by tipe and workabillity sire - crypto I am use him. I know exactly, that there are successful TB sires - cryptos in America. Polotly was not crypto, but his father - Peren was. I would be happy to use Peren in my breeding program.
A. Klimuk.

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14. Ronald07/02/2006 17:30:05

Well , wath do you think about the broodmare, if it is inherbitel, she will be give it also to her ofspring, not only the stallion is to be blaimd. It is in this case a difficuld problem.

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