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Conformation 10/05/2006 04:36 PMThe pictures of Dominik I have borrowed from Darya's web site to illustrate better what I mean I have added a picture of Aisona and Orion as they have similar pedigrees, paternal grandfather (note that they are one generation closer to Daghestan than Dominik) Daghestan and Arab-line stallions as maternal grandfathers. They are also similar in color which should make it easier to compare. My comments are my personal and I have written down what I see in horses when I look at them as prospective riding and breeding animals.
This picture has been removed on request by the current owner of Dominik. See comment 16 to this blog.
Here is Dominik as four years old, he has probably recently arrived to Darya as he is thin, you can see the ribs. This is what I see in this picture.
For his age he could be better developed, he looks much younger than he is.
He has a low set neck that he carries high. The head is a little bit coarse so is the head set to the neck. The shoulders are a little bit steep and short, long and high withers, the neck is set a little bit broad to the shoulders, might get coarser with the age.
The height over the withers tend to be more due to the depth of the chest than the lenght of the legs. The legs look good from the side. A little bit straight in the hock.
He is deep in the top line and is weak over the loin, he is overbuilt but as he is four years old he might even out. The croup is short.
My overall impression is lack of harmony in the build as well as lack of masculinity.
However this is my impression from this picture, movements, balance under rider, presence to a certain exctent is not possible to judge from a picture.
What I look for in the Tekes and what makes them such a challenge to breed is ultra elegance combined with an athletic and powerful look. An athletic aristocrat! Coarseness in any sence I consider not attractive in this breed.
Look at Fakir Sulu, Gelishikli and Fakirpelvan and study the elegance that comes from the long legs and the sense of power that comes from the strong and functional build of the body.
Here is Aisona she is three years old in this picture, She has a high carried neck that is set high onto the shoulders. She has strong top line eventhough she is a little bit overbuilt due to her age. Her height comes from the lenght of her legs more than the depth of her chest. The head is set nicely to the neck. She has a long croup. In this horse I see harmony and functionality as well as typicalness and elegance.
Movements and masculinity
A stallion must be a stallion in type, build and character. Tekes are known for their strong impulsion in their ground covering trot as well as their supermacho stallion presence. A stallion must be very "here I am" in their presence.
This picturee has been remove see comment 16 below.
Here is a picture of Dominik when he is two, the trot lacks impulsion and in this picture Dominik lacks masculinity which I think he does overall in all the pictures that a published of him on the web site. If he is more masculine and powerful in real life, I think better pictures that illustrates that can be published to be fair to the horse.
1. Darya10/06/2006 02:40:14
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com
Jessica,
Thank you very much for your comments, this is very useful for me. Dominik has just arrived at my place on Sunday, and he is not in the best shape, I must admit. He needs to put a bit of weight and quite a bit of mussle on, but that should be possible to correct with good training. He does look very impresive in real life as he has got a lot of presence and very typical movements. That is why I always invite people to come and look at him. I will work on him and keep updating his pictures, I would very much like your oppinion as we, hopefully, improve. 
I must admit, I thought his shoulder was not perfect, but I was not sure and decided not to write it. In a way I'm glad you mentioned it, cos than I have suspected the right thing.
As of Zahmet, I remember seeing him on a telly in some top class dressage competition in Moscow and the rider was Marina Mironova, as I remember, and he is definitely one striking horse and I remember he won first prize on that competition. But I think Nadja will be able to provide more detail. Also I know there are other horses at their farm that has done some succesful competing, so it would be useful to write the details of those as well, so Jessica can add them on to the achievements of the breed.
2. Darya10/06/2006 02:43:30
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com
Here is the link to some pics you might like to have a look, there are some of Zahmet and Metman on competitions, but of course we need more detail. http://www.akhalt-service.ru/foto/index.php?page=1&topic_id=4
3. maria10/06/2006 11:06:46
I too found Jessica's comments very educational. I have a question: short croup - how do you measure it? I want to understand why Aisona's is long and Dominic's is short.
I do agree that Dominic doesn't look particularly masculine but rather a gentle soul and that gives him a very sweet look! I have to say I can relate to Darya's choice 
but having the discussion is GREAT! It's so rare that an assessment like this can be presented objectively and listened to objectively. I am so sick and tired of people not being able to judge their own horses!
4. Darya10/06/2006 12:20:52
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com
Maria,
I'm glad that you are enjoying this as well. I knew I have bought a class 1 horse, so I knew there will be some minors, but overall I am very pleased with the "evaluation". And I think we need more discussions like this. I do not think that they are going to depreciate the horse, even better, I do not want to sell people what is not there and upset them. So I would really like to know, what is what before I start telling people myself. I do not want to sound unrealistic about my horses to others as that can put people off as well. I'm rather hopeful, that a lot of the times, the horses will speak for themselves, that's why I'm very determined to get him into good shape.
5. Jessica 10/06/2006 15:46:52
Ok, I'll quickly explain how to assess the topline,powertransmission and croup/hip. I'am language handicapped when it comes to conformational terminology, if you do not understand or if I make no sense, ask me what I mean.
One of the most common weaknesses in the Teke breed that really affects the rideability is the top line and power transmission.
It seems to me that the topline is not considered enough in the conformational points that I in most cases do not understand anyways. Certain faults in horses are minor some are more severe. I think how you judge them to a great deal have to do with if you are a rider or not.
Ok in a good riding horse you want a topline that will transmit the power from the hindquarters to the front end and and a front end that can take up the energy and work in balance.
So if you study the top line, again look at Aisona, you want the neck to come out from the shoulders straight out with no dip in front of the withers, the lancet mark, now compare Aisona and Dominik, Aisona has no dip while Dominik has a dip. You want long and well muscled withers that can "carry the back" as well as place the saddle good. You want a medium back, now the back is measures from the withers to the loin, normally the Tekes does not have an extremely long or soft back, they actually tend to have a lenght of the back that is good for the riding horse, what some of them do have though is a weak, concave loin, the loin begins where the last rib ends and ends where the croup begins at the lumbosacral joint. Now compare again that part on Aisona and Dominik look how while Aisona has a straight, long but strong loin, Dominik's loin dips before it comes into the lumbosacral joint, in Swedish it is called "stucked in loin".
The loin works as power transmission from the hindquarters to the front end and affects the impulsion. So normally when judges or riders talk about a soft back, they actually mean a concave loin.
Other good illustration of a long and strong loin is if you look under PhotoTeke on Almaz, Mangit and Ogdan they have all long and strong loins. This powertransmission is very important for both dressage and jumper riders.
Ok, after the loin comes the croup that begins at the lumbosacral joint that is the top of the croup so to say, and ends where the tail begins, the lengt of the croup is normally connected to the lenght of the hip, that in order to create good impulsion should be longer rather than shorter.
Does this make any sense?
For a very good illustration of an elegant but powerful horse, look at Ardon under PhotoTeke, he is strong built but thanks to his long legs and high quality he really is an equine aristocrat as well as without doubt an Akhal-Teke.
6. Darya10/06/2006 16:07:47
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com
Thank you Jessica, that was quite educational, I do agree on the loins point and see what you mean. My question is it possible to strengthen the loins through exercise? If yes, what is the best? Or is it more genetical? I am not sure about the straight line from the withers to the neck, as looking at Dornazarbek and Yulduz and some other good Tekes, they appear to have a dip very similar to Dominiks as well, so is it very much important? Another question. A short hip/croup, does it just look better when it is long, or does it tend to affect the performance as well?
Thank you very much.
7. Jessica 10/06/2006 16:42:59
Good Darya,
every horse has one or more weaknesses and as a rider/trainer you must be aware of them, in order to
1. Not ever ask the horse to perform more than his limits
2 work out a training program that strengthen weaknesses.
Maybe you have read earlier that we work with our Focus and Fairness program when we train our horses. Knowing your horse is key to fair training.
You now have an indication that the power transmission in your horse might be weak.
I think it is a good idea to talk to Maria's trainer about a good body and balance building program for Dominik.
But now, when you approach the trainer you know what you have. It's good.
You will have to find a way to make Dominik activate his back and hind end. Longing with some kind of aid that make your horse activate the back and loin muscles, if you experiment with different help reins (I would try Chambon in your case), look at the picture of Merdjen when she is longed, you can see how her loin and back muscles are working at the same time as she willingly and relaxed is trotting.
Climbing hills is great to, but in moderation, you will want to build up, not wear down.
And of course, the and cheapest chiropractice, free jumpign and jumping under rider, makes sure that Dominik is stretching his back.
You will in your riding have to work extra to collect your horse but of course it is possible. Many of us other lazy riders, however, prefer horses that are built for easy collection so that we do not have to work so hard .
The dip in front of the withers, yes, most Tekes have a dip and it is actually not considered a fault in the breed. Sometimes it is confused with deer neck but it is actually the effect of a low set neck set combined, I would say, with high withers which make the dip more prominent. A low neck set affects the balance of the horse, therefore dressage and jumper riders prefer to have a high set neck that comes out so to say straight from the shoulders/withers.
In our breeding program we are ok with a slighly low set neck and we have actually not in our horses experienced wobbly or tracking horses due to the dip. However, we try to avoid to low set necks.
Many of the good Arab-line Tekes that have been bred more towards the sport horse usage, normally have a neck set that is more easily accepted by riders. But of course, one cannot generalise as there are big differences between the lines.
8. Darya10/06/2006 17:15:50
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com
Thank you very much Jessica, I remember pictures of Merdjen and will certainly keep that method in mind. I will try and take pictures, when I come to use it, so that you can reassure me it is working. You probably regret now you have started telling me, cos I keep on to you for advice now. I will certainly discuss that loins issue with my trainer, or if I get to see Maria's and will make good use of their advice. I will look at doing some light jumping with him too, the more variety the better I think, cos he likes to learn new things, and it will keep his mind off the mare.
I am happy with the neck issue, I do not think it affects him much from what I have seen of him, I will know better obviously once I start riding him.
9. Nadja10/07/2006 14:58:35
Homepage: http://www.akhalt-service.ru
I know, that at Dominik it is a lot of expression, energy. And he is very bright and effective stallion. This general opinion of many people.
Question in photos. It is necessary to show successful photos of a horse, instead of after 21 day time quarantines and three-day transportation (Friday, Saturday and Sunday).
I shall make it, when I shall come back from fishing. Now I do not have such opportunity. My Internet through mobile phone.
I also shall give the information on our sports horses.
10. Darya10/07/2006 17:05:41
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com
Thank you Nadja for your oppinion, do not worry, as it is described in the message about his condition being not the best after the transportation. I will make some better pictures of him very soon, as he looks better by the day now he is well settled and happy. Thank you in advance for the info on sport horses.
11. Jessica 10/08/2006 15:28:45
Darya,
Did you try Dominik under saddle before you bought him, or did you see him under rider? Do you know why the 7 year old mare you bought was never backed or trained? Is she injured?
I think trying out your breeding animals under saddle is optimal especially for riding horses, sometimes though you find an animal that fits so good into your breeding program but for some reasons the animal cannot be tried under saddle. But I think these exceptions should be few and not a rule.
I know that V. Schamborant was very careful in this sense as he always wanted results under saddle on his horses before he bred them also Stavropol stud tests their horses under saddle to know not only type and conformation but also performance ability.
As the Teke breed today, is being more aggressively marketed as a sport horse I think it is even more important that the Tekes are properly tested under rider, today, in this breed we do not really know how the top performing Teke is built or what bloodlines he comes from. This is defenitely a hinder for a successful promotion of the abilities in this breed. The best performing Tekes of all times are Arab and Absent they both had high set necks for example.
How about the best performing Tekes today, what do they look like, are there types within this breed that should be picked out, tested and entered into professional training programs to be educated to their optimal level? In the future it would be great if we could arrange quality tests for Tekes in Europe and in the USA to be able to pick out talents early and increase the interest for the breed.
12. Darya10/08/2006 16:23:52
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com
Jessica,
I have seen Dominik under rider before I bought him. I have chosen not to ride him myself though, as I want to gain some of his trust before I ride him. He is a stallion after all and this is me being careful. The mare has never been injured, she was just being used as a broodmare and never ridden. I am contemplating the idea of backing her eventually, she is quite a site to watch when she takes off around the field and her movements are stunning. She seems very well balanced, but it is hard to judge without having ridden a horse you are right. She is quite set in her ways though so it will take a long time to get her backed, because of her age I guess. He is making good progress and we have been around the farm and worked on the lunge today. I just had to lock her up in the stable so she does not call out for him and make him nervous. He is very concentrated and willing to please on the lunge. I think with good training he can learn a lot.
I agree with you on the point of performance testing. There is no proper way of evaluating the horses within the breed at the moment it appears and most breeders just tend to use their own judgement. Which is probably not the best as we can not select the best animals for the improvement of the breed. I have noticed that Akhalt Service have had some of their horses tested for quality of movement but I am not sure how that is done on the shows in Russia. The most of more or less achievers in sports from the breed that I have read of appear to be Arab line horses, but we really need to create some sort of statistics to be able to say for sure, whether particular lines tend to produce sport horses or it really depends on the individual horse.
13. Jessica10/09/2006 10:08:40
Darya,
Once your Teke is out of Russia and enters the western equestrian world the show results, gradings, movement evaluations and show results must be re-evaluated. The western homo equestrian will look at your horse "without clothes" or without the grading or show results and if the points do not correspond with what they see they will either think you make them up, or they will think that the Teke breed has a different system of grading horses and dismiss it. We have seen enough gait evaluations and gradings over the years to question the way points are given to Tekes and we think this is a very strong reason for the lack of popularity for this breed. The system for inspections must be modernized, democratised and become much more transparent.
The credability for the Teke breed is jeopardized by the present way of grading where horses that has a build that is against every basic rule for what makes a riding horse are promoted to stars.
I think that many of us active in this breed would agree on the fact that we need more riders/users of Tekes than breeders as today there is an overproduction of Tekes.
However, in order to attract more riders to this breed, we will have to present the riders with horses that are suitable for riding and not only for a short career in the show ring to become world champions and later being retired to breeding.
My strong recommendation for those of you that look for Tekes today is to "undress" the horse from breeding classification points and other show rewards and critically look at the horse and it body build.
14. Heather Mahoney10/09/2006 10:27:47
Jessica,
I was a little surprised by the AT's apprent lack of usage and focus on breeding. So my question is this - how popular is the AT as a riding horse within Russia? Do you find it very frequently used for various sports, or is it, even there, used primarily for breeding??
15. Darya10/09/2006 15:20:33
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com
Jessica,
That's why I am looking at training up my stallion for a sports career. I think taking part in sports competitions, and hopefully, doing well, will be the best add for the breed. And Tekes are definitely not overproduced in UK. And look at Arabs, they are missing bones, but do not suffer from being unpopular. Probably due to good marketing and good breed standards and the organisation that looks after them.
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