As you can see from the top of the page it appears that the horse is registered with VNIIK (All-Russia Research Institute of Horse Breeding) and MAAK (International Association of the Akhal-Teke Horse Breeding) . As it appears one might think that the General Akhal-Teke Stud book is owned and operated by both associations.

1. shael10/16/2006 10:06:55
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

At the last conference in Febrary of 2006 I asked T. Ryabova about questions, which me, like member of MAAK, can have to decide on the field of Studbook (estimations, biotechnologies, registration and so on). There was answer: "No, you can not. That are rights of VNIIK".

2. Blanca10/16/2006 12:54:13

Hmmm, as far as I understood, VNIIK is for Russia while Maak is the international association. Maak is the one who decides on rules and procedures. Am I right?

3. Todd Keith10/16/2006 13:33:07
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com

Hi Blanca,

VNIIK is the official Russian state owned horse breeding center.
VNIIK owns the Akhal-Teke studbook. Tatyana and Nadya are employed by the Russian Gov to manage the studbook for VNIIK.
MAAK is the "International" breeders association. MAAK was created years (1995) ago by breeders and the stud book management.

4. Todd10/16/2006 15:33:55
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/

I forgot that the Russian Akhal-Teke Association is also run by the same people.

5. Blanca10/16/2006 16:26:48

What is quite meaningful here is that both ladies are paid then by VNIIK, and thus by the Russian Govt.

Nothing negative, simply want to point out the fact that we have full time people thanks to VNIIK. But, of course, there is the other side...

6. Jessica 10/16/2006 16:43:09

Leonid, I copied from the MAAK homepage www.maakcenter.org, there you can read that one of MAAK's main task is to control breeding, perfection and selection of the Tekes, in other words MAAK can according to this rule affect the work of VNIIK, so if as a member of MAAK you can be part of their work with the breed perfection. The MAAK-meeting in Ashgabad was also about these issues and no one was told then that MAAK could not affect the work of VNIIK.
About MAAK:
"Members of MAAK enjoy the following benefits:
-free consultations on keeping and raising Akhal-Teke horses,
-discounted price for selection work with their horses,
-discounted price for registering their horses,
-special books/booklets for 50% of the price and other valuable benefits.
The main purpose of MAAK is to unite breeders and amateurs, of Akhal-Teke horses from different countries, who are involved in breeding pureblood and partblood Akhal-Teke horses or in other ways take part in the preserving and perfection of Akhal-Teke breed.
Main tasks of MAAK are:
1) preservation, protection and perfection of pureblood Akhal-Teke breed, it's breeding purity, original type and working qualities;
2) Control of primarily selecting and breeding work
3) Consultation about breeding and raising of Akhal-Teke horses;
4) Increasing popularity of the breed and distribution of information regarding breeding of Akhal-Teke horses;
5) Increasing of competitiveness of Akhal-Teke breed among other sport breeds, assistance in expansion of the breed in the world.
6) Development of international contacts and cooperation between CIC countries and foreign organizations, companies and private persons in the field of Akhal-Teke breeding.
7) Participation in congress, symposiums and other events corresponding to the activity of the Association.
8) Realization of other activities, appropriate to the purpose of Association and not forbidden by the current legislation.

7. Hans-Jurg Buss10/16/2006 16:58:57

As somebody who instinctively never interested much about MAAK / VNIIK and never met Mrs. Ryabova I am quite astonhished to learn now that even you experts ( I say that not ironically) seem to not really know what is that relationship exactly, besides that the same two ladies seem to work for three different entities.

8. shael10/17/2006 03:40:20
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

Rights of you like members of MAAK is dream, only.

9. Jessica10/17/2006 07:54:51

Why does MAAK exist then, if it is not working for the interest of the members/breeders?

Maybe now is the right time to create a breeders alliance?

When I was president of the Swedish Assn. we took the initiative to one European meeting in Switzerland, at that time though, the French had problems with two fighting associations, Italy had no association and Germany was going trough a big shift as Mr Passigatti was leaving after a very long time as president.
A few years later Christoph Vogel took the initiative to the Frankfurt meeting, Sweden did not attend but for several reasons nothing really came out of this meeting.
The last attempt as I know of was made by EuroTeke also by initiative from us in Sweden. However that project fell due to lack of support from Germany and Switzerland mostly.
Maybe it has been the wrong approach or to early to work via national associations for a new breed, it takes time for an association to grow into an institution that can take on not only national but also international challenges.
Maybe a breeder's alliance with a few well defined goals such as international breed promotion (advertising), better collection and presentation of breed statistics such as racing, endurance, eventing, show jumping and dressage results as well as in-hand show results to really show the equestrian world the agility of the breed as well as the real challenge to breed excellent Tekes. Push for improvement and transparency from the Russian state's work with the record keeping and breed evaluation.
I think at this point it is quite obvious that we all (mostly the breed) suffer from lack of coordination, information and cooperation. The lack of professionalism and auhority from the organisations that are supposed to support the breed and the breeders have lead to the fact that more pirates than serious horse people are attracted to this breed, this has led to a lower quality of Tekes produced and people are not attracted to the breed that to them look like mediocre horses good for nothing.
To me it seems like everything is for sale in the Teke world, such as world championships, grading points, MAAK approval (whatever that is) as well as total and blind support for whatever you do from the MAAK/VNIIK offices.

10. shael10/17/2006 08:19:58
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

Most important russian breeders have such alliance (unofficial) There are Stavropol Stud, Shamboraunt Stud, Naib Idris Stud.

11. Jessica10/17/2006 09:17:37

That's great Leonid, in my opinion a step in the right direction.
May I ask what your main goal is with your alliance? Will it be open only for Russian quality breeders?

12. Jessica 10/17/2006 09:27:41

I found the Arabian breeders alliance vision statement on the web, I think their goals are very good and food for thought (I strongly object that they call the Arabian horse the oldest breed in the world though):
"# To form a proactive coalition of dedicated Arabian horse breeders whose united efforts ensure the promotion and perpetuation of the worlds oldest breed in an ethical and responsible manner.
# To ensure that all promotional and educational efforts celebrate the natural beauty, nobility, history, and unique character of the breed.
# To provide world-class competitive and evaluation opportunities which showcase the Arabian breed in an exciting and dynamic manner to newcomers and owners alike while providing sound guidance to both breeders and potential owners.
# To ensure that judges for all competitions are selected from an international spectrum of respected people and that all competitive endeavors reflect the highest possible worldwide standards and not merely those of a single country."

13. shael10/17/2006 09:55:52
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

At the beggining we protect each other in our actins. Races, Breeder's Cup "Shael" in Equiros and other initiations. We are open, but i don't know how to relate our interests with actions abroad Russia. Everything expensive. But if we are together can organize total sistem of shows and races? That would be perfect.

14. Hans-Jurg Buss10/17/2006 16:45:18

"MAAK is the "International" breeders association. MAAK was created years (1995) ago by breeders and the stud book management." (Todd above)

Now some questions to the MAAK members reading this blog:

1. Does that mean that MAAK was founded by individual breeders on one side and the state organ VNIIK (=stud book management) on the other?

2. Who are the members of MAAK and who not? a) Individual breeders, b) national associations and c) state organs?

3. How many members MAAK has?

4. Each member one vote?

5. Who is part of MAAK Board? How many persons from where?

6. How many employees does have MAAK, and who are these persons ?

7. How is MAAK financed? By members only? Have you an annual report?

8. According to Leonid the "copyright" of studbook is exclusively with VNIIK. But VNIIK receives the data from MAAK. For free or do they compensate MAAK for collecting the data?

15. shael10/18/2006 00:13:23
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

Fife years adoI wrote this article. Today I'd write somr things another, bur in general it is correct stil.

Почему мы против МААК

Осенью 1994 года коннозаводчики всего мира в подавляющем большинстве собрались в г. Дубне для того чтобы основать Международную Ассоциацию Ахалтекинского Коннозаводства (МААК). Создание МААК казалось бы, должно было стать очень важным фактом в деле координации усилий по развитию нашей отрасли. Что же получилось на самом деле, какой же сухой остаток деятельности МААК к концу 2001 года? Расставим факты по своим местам в соответствии с Уставом ассоциации.
1. Выяснилось что, коннозаводчики не являются учредителями МААК. Учредителями же являются - ВНИИ коневодства, некая подпольная общественная организация «Ассоциация Ахалтекинского Коннозаводства СНГ» (ААТК) в составе строго законспирированных учредителей и засекреченных членов и малое предприятие «Ахал Юрт» из Туркменистана. Таким образом, все ведущие конные заводы оказались сторонними наблюдателями и не участвовали в создании уставных документов созданной ассоциации. Кроме того, из публикаций на официальном сайте в интернете (создание и финансирование которого также тайна для коннозаводчиков) выясняется что, ВНИИК и ААТК являются основными учредителями и обладают особенными правами в МААК.
2. В соответствии с уставными задачами МААК обязуется вести племенную книгу чистокровной ахалтекинской породы, осуществлять контроль за первичным племенным учётом (п.2.2.). Удивительным образом из текста выпало ключевое слово «Государственная» племенная книга (ГПК). Дело в том что, ВНИИКу Государством вменено в обязанность ведение племенных книг по конским породам, разводимым в России, и МААК к управлению ГПК не имеет никакого отношения. Но, благодаря данному пункту и не вмешательству ВННИКа у МААК появилась возможность пропускать через себя финансовые потоки, собираемые за регистрацию лошадей в ГПК и устанавливать прейскурант цен за это. Таким образом, коннозаводчики оказались полностью в руках Правления МААК. Влиять на управление у нас нет возможности ввиду ущербности прав членства в ассоциации. А если принять во внимание, что правление МААК, по сути, есть чиновники ВНИИКа, то кольцо нашего бесправия замыкается.
3. Заслуживает внимания определение Уставом членства в Ассоциации (п.4.3.1.). Отсюда следует, что действительным членом МААК может стать любое юридическое лицо, владеющее не менее 10-ю племенными кобылами, и физическое лицо, владеющее не менее 5-ю племенными кобылами. Этот пункт дискриминирует большое количество коневладельцев, не удовлетворяющих данному количественному цензу. Поражены в правах и владельцы племенных жеребцов. Вызывает раздражение следующее положение Устава: «Те действительные члены, которые приняли участие в создании Ассоциации и внесли свой денежный или материальный вклад в фонд Ассоциации, считаются членами-учредителями». То есть только один конный завод «Ахал Юрт». Ну а распределение голосов между действительными членами является фарсом. Так Конный завод имени Ниязова, владеющий более чем ста матками имеет ровно на один голос больше чем физическое лицо, обладающее пятью матками.
4. (п.5.5.) В Правление входят по должности: Президент, два Вице-президента, руководитель Селекционно-племенного центра и исполнительный директор. Свои заседания Правление проводит не реже одного раза в месяц. Кто же у нас входит в Правление? Президентом является господин Ниязов - он же и Президент государства Туркменистан. Возможность общения с ним близка к нолю. Вице-президент «по Туркменистану» - господин Кяризов, он же Президент объединения «Туркменатлары», он же владелец П/Ф «Ахал Юрт». Не имея доступа к информации и к финансовым потокам, большая часть которых должна поступать из Туркменистана, господин Кяризов по сути является «министром без портфеля» и вынужден ограничиться деятельностью внутри Туркменистана. Но амбиции господина Кяризова масштабны и основная цель - это перевод Книги в Туркменистан и доступ к управлению над ахалтекинским сообществом. Ради этого он в 2001 году созвал конференцию в Ашхабаде и объявил о создании ещё одной параллельной МААК с правом ведения ещё одной Книги. Таким образом, де-юре было объявлено о создании новой породы лошадей, претендующей на название «ахалтекинская». Какими же правами наделён г-н Кяризов, позволяющими ему - члену МААК, не выходя из этой организации, создавать другую МААК и распоряжаться отторжением чужой собственности (Государственной Племенной Книги), принадлежащей России, в пользу другого государства – Туркменистан? С другой стороны действия господина Кяризова можно понять: они продиктованы тем бесправным положением его как коннозаводчика в Ассоциации. Это способ борьбы против существующего произвола. Другим Вице-президентом, отвечающим за остальной мир, является госпожа Рябова. Это и есть истинный хозяин МААК и Книги. Госпожа Рябова является государственным регистратором ГПК во ВНИИ коневодства и руководителем Селекционно-племенного центра МААК, которому вменено в соответствии с Уставом (п.5.7.) вести племенную Книгу, выдавать племенные документы, международные сертификаты, лицензировать жеребцов-производителей, проводить и организовывать выставки, выводки, аукционы и т. д. Собственно говоря имеет право на всё. Из кого же состоит Слекцентр? А только из двух человек, уже упомянутого руководителя, госпожи Рябовой и её подчинённой во ВНИИКе госпожи Абрамовой. Госпожа Абрамова, кроме того, входит в Правление МААК в качестве Исполнительного директора МААК, который распоряжается кассой МААК (п.5.9.), куда поступают деньги со всего мира за регистрацию лошадей в ГОСУДАРСТВЕННОЙ Книге. Картина бесправия коннозаводчиков в собственной Ассоциации завершена. Интересно что, для того чтобы исключить казус связанный с наложением обязательств по ведению ГПК двумя организациями (ВНИИК и МААК) в интернете было опубликовано Положение о Селекционно-племенном центре МААК, в качестве которого был объявлен, не больше не меньше, как ВНИИ коневодства. Таким образом, ещё раз нарушен Устав МААК, а ВНИИК поставлен в подчинение руководства МААК в лице госпожи Рябовой (Хорошая новость для ВНИИК).
Таким образом, реально из пяти руководящих постов в Правлении Ассоциации пост Президента равноудалён от нас, как и Солнце, Вице-президент по Туркменистану лишен всяческих полномочий и занят сепаратизмом, а три находятся в руках госпожи Рябовой. Вся деятельность МААК это сплошная АБРОКАДАБРА и участвовать в этом, а тем более быть подопытным кроликом для нашего конного завода не представляется возможным.
Можно добавить что, за шесть лет существования МААК не было ни одного финансового отчёта.
В связи со всем этим К/Ф «Шаэль» имени Владимира Шамборанта приостанавливает все платежи до отчётно-перевыборного собрания.




Леонид Бабаев - директор К/Ф «Шаэль» им. В. Шамборанта.
30 октября 2001 г.

16. maria10/18/2006 05:03:23

perevodit' ili net?

17. shael10/18/2006 05:14:17
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

Переводи.

18. maria10/18/2006 07:44:32

Собралась переводить, а оказалось она у меня уже есть в архиве переводов Собрания Сочинений Л. Бабаева! In Autumn 1994 the majority of horse breeders from around the world gathered in Dubna with the intention of founding the International Association of Akhal-Teke Horsebreeding (MAAK). The creation of MAAK, it seemed then, was meant to be a very important step in coordinating our efforts to develop our industry. But what has emerged as a result in reality? What is the net gain of MAAK activities at the end of 2001? Let us arrange the facts in order in accordance with the Constitution of the Association. 1. It turned out that the breeders are not the founders of MAAK. The founder is The All-Russia Research Institute of Horsebreeding; among the founders is some semi-official public body called Association of Akhal-Teke Horsebreeding of the CIS (acronym AATK), alongside with some strictly-encoded founders and secret members, and a small enterprise Akhal-Yurt in Turkmenistan. Meantime all the leading studs have been forced to become the outside observers and didn't take part in the writing of constitutional documentation of the Association thus created. Besides, from the materials on the official site on the internet (whose creation and financing is also a complete mystery for the horse breeders) it emerges that the All-Russia Institute and AATK are the main founders and have special rights within MAAK. 2. In accordance with its foundation principles, MAAK takes it upon itself to maintain a studbook of the pure-bred Akhal-Teke horses and exercise control over the primary process of registration (article 2.2). In a curious turn of events, the key phrase "State" Studbook. The point is, All-Russia Research Institute of Horsebreeding (ARRHB) is entrusted with the responsibility of maintaining studbooks of horse breeds bred in Russia, and MAAK has no business in managing the State Studbooks. But thanks to the above-mentioned article, and to a lack of objections from ARRHB, MAAK has gained a route by means of which it is able to channel the financial contributions, collected from the registration of horses as well as an opportunity to set registration prices. In this way, horse breeders have found themselves entirely at the mercy of MAAK. We have no right to exert any influence on the management of MAAK due to the fact that our rights within it are very limited. If we take into account that the Ruling Committee of MAAK in practice consists of ARRHB officials, we can see how the vicious circle has closed around us. 3. One should look closer at the definition of membership of the Association (article 4.3.1). It transpires from it that any legal body can become a member of MAAK, provided it owns at least 10 brood mares and any individual who owns at least 5 mares. This article discriminates against a large number of horse owners who do not qualify on the grounds of this quantitative restriction. The rights of breeding stallion owners are also affected. The following point of the Constitution causes considerable irritation: "Those members, who took part in the creation of the Association and who contributed in a monetary or material way to the Association funds are the founder members of MAAK". This means - only one stud - Akhal-Yurt As to the distribution of voting rights between members, it is a pure farce. For example, the Niyazov Stud, which owns more than a hundred broodmares has only one vote more than an individual who owns 5 broodmares. 4. Article 5.5 The Managing Committee consists of the President, two Vice-Presidents, the manager of selection and breeding centre and an executive director. Committee meets no less than once a month. So who is the member of the Managing Committee? The President is Mr Niyazov - also the President of the Republic of Turkmenistan. The possibility of direct contact with him is close to zero. Vice-President, representing Turkmenistan, is Mr Kyariov, also the President of the association Turkmen-Atlary, also the owner of the enterprise Akhal-Yurt. As Mr Kyarizov has no access to the internal information and to finances of MAAK, most of which should come to MAAK from Turkmenistan, he is - de facto - a Minister without Portfolio and is forced to work with the breed within Turkmenistan only. But Mr Kyarizov is an ambitious man, whose main aim is to transfer the Studbook to Turkmenistan and gain some control over the management of the Akhal-Teke fraternity. With this aim in mind he organised a conference in Ashkhabad in Spring 2001 and announced the creation of a parallel MAAK with the right of maintaining another studbook. In this way, from the legal point of view, a creation of a new breed has been announced, wanting to be known as Akhal-Teke. What rights does Mr Kyarizov have to allow him, a member of MAAK, without giving up his membership, to go and create another MAAK and make a decision to appropriate, on behalf of Turkmenistan, somebody else's property (The State Studbook), which belongs to Russia? On the other hand, one can understand the actions of M Kyarizov: they are provoked by his lack of proper rights as a horse breeder within the Association. His actions are just an attempt to fight the existing lawlessness. The other vice-president, representing the rest of the world, is Mrs Ryabova. She is the real boss of MAAK and the Studbook. Mrs Ryabova has the status of the State Registrar within ARRHB and the head of the Department of Selection and Breeding, which, in accordance with article 5.7, has the responsibility of maintaining the Studbook, issuing registration documents, international certificates, licence stallions and organise events and exhibitions, shows and auctions. In effect, she has all the rights. Who is the member of the Selection and Breeding Centre? Only two people - the above-mentioned Mrs Ryabova and her subordinate within MAAK, Ms Abramova. Ms Abramova is also a member of MAAK Managing Committee and an Executive Director of MAAK who handles all the funds from around the world levied for the registration of horses in the State Studbook. Thus the picture depicting the lack of proper rights of horse breeders within their own association is completed. It is interesting to note, that in order to avoid a sticking point of two organisations (ARRHB and MAAK) having to maintain the Studbook, there was a publication on the internet entitled Statement on Selection and Breeding Centre MAAK, where - amazingly - ARRHB was nominated as the above Centre. In this way, the Constitution of MAAK has been violated again and ARRHB has been made subordinate to MAAK, de facto to Mrs Ryabova (good news for ARRHB). In this way, in reality, out of five posts on the Association Committee the post of President is as remote and inaccessible as the sun, vice president representing Turkmenistan lacks any rights and has embarked on a separatist course of action, and the remaining three posts are in the hands of Mrs Ryabova. All the activities of MAAK are pure ABRACADABRA and to take part in it, as well as to be a guinea-pig for our stud does not seem like a reasonable option. One can only add that, in the six years since MAAK inception there has not been a single financial report. Therefore, the Vladimir Shamborant Horsebreeding Farm Shael is suspending all payments until the Annual General Meeting of Voters. Leonid Babaev - director of the Vladimir Shamborant Horsebreeding Farm Shael 30 October 2001

19. Hans-Jurg Buss10/18/2006 07:44:54

Leonid, I have made a rough "translation" of your article and it seems to me that you have pretty much "answered" already five years ago exactly those questions I have just raised yesterday!

20. maria10/18/2006 07:45:52

All, I hope this is the right version - I found it on my computer, I think it is... I am in rush now to take Mualim for his dressage saddle fitting this afternoon, so haven't checked it word by word. Let me know if you find mistakes!

21. Hans-Jurg Buss10/18/2006 07:51:56

.... well and in the meantime Maria already has made a real translation. Thank you. And I am impressed about your speed Maria!

22. Darya10/18/2006 08:12:52
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

What a mess, looks like there is not only shortage of good riders, there is shortage of good lawyers as well. Perfect example of how things work (or do not work) in Russia. Shall everyone get together again for MAAK 2, since original MAAK was such a hit? Sorry for being sarcastic. This does involve me after all, and everyone, who has got a Teke and trying to figure out this situation. Truly sad situation. What are the ideas on resolving this? Would very much appreciate to hear that, if I haven't annoyed the hell out of everyone yet.

23. shael10/18/2006 08:40:01
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

Don't worry. Necessary to work with VNIIK like breeders or like national assotiations. If breeders want to correct MAAK, please let do it, or create new World Organization of breeders with new Book, wich goes from VNIIK's Book. I prefer to correct MAAK, wich has history.

24. Darya10/18/2006 09:05:37
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

How do we correct MAAK, if me, for example, won't even qualify to be a member? And national organisation is the first priority to work on. Hopefully we will be able to attend future gatherings of breeders as UK representatives. That is one of our goals.

25. Jessica 10/18/2006 09:41:52

Excellent article Leonid. MAAK in a nutshell. Great translation Maria.
I think you should be the official Writer of the Legends of this breed. Quality is important not only in our horses but also in our presentation of the breed to the world audience.
Ok back to MAAK, spontaneously it seems like it would be easier to turn your back to MAAK and get going with a brand new breeder's association, this mostly because it would take a lot of energy to work on internal problems like cleaning out the many sceletons from the wardrobe.
Leonid mentions the secret owners and unknown forces that are engaged in MAAK, some of them have already caused real problems for the breed's image in the west and I see no way of having these groups working in an open and progressive organisation.
The work with reforming MAAK might fail and then time and energy have been lost for nothing and you still would have to start all over again. Time is essential in my opinion.
If I cannot see a change within five years, I will keep a few Tekes for riding, but defenitely spend my breeding efforts within another breed with an established infrastructure focused on breed improvement.
What I do, does of course not matter, but I know others that also have been instrumental for the Tekes introduction in their home countries that feel the same. And we do not want to loose to many with a history in this breed. And even more important loose newcomers that decide to go with another breed instead as there are to many difficulties to overcome.
Founding a new organisation is very hard work and the risk of failure is big.
I can only see this happening if the absolute authorities in this breed would instigate the work and more than 50% of todays established, well renowned breeders world wide, committed to support and join. The good thing with a new, transparent goal oriented organisation is that it might be easier to find resourceful sponsors to the organisation. This would be almost impossible with the history and structure of MAAK.
However, I think we have identified the problem with the present breed organisation and infrastructure, which is ever so important and now let's go on and brainstorm for the future!

26. Hans-Jurg Buss10/18/2006 11:03:25

Leonid, now that I could read your article in full I am even more impressed of how much it matched the questions I have raised. Even the point of lacking financial annual reports you mentioned briefly. Of course my questions have been based on my instinctive reception of how MAAK presented to me all the time since I am engaged in this breed (i.e. since 2000). Now I have the confirmation, or does anyone here has a different opinion in general or with regard to specific points? But it may well be the breeders which are happy with MAAK do not read this blog.

What does surprise me however after having read his article is the fact that Leonid would prefer "to correct MAAK". I am not a fan either of new organizations and "shismas". But the situation with MAAK seems to me for historical and political reasons impossible to improve within reasonable time to such a point that a self-confident and renowned breeder would join freely this organization. Just think about this: how can you join an organization with such a President? Political reasons may recommend politeness to certain persons. But I am a free man with no diplomatic obligations.

I do not think it is correct to say that this is "a perfect example of how things work (or do not work) in Russia". That is to short minded. The problem lies within the total history of this breed during 20th century and its protagonists on a personal and political level.

27. shael10/18/2006 11:16:39
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

Another way new organithation. It is very easy. Right now we have agreement between Stavropol and Shamboraunt Studs. Somebody else can come to us and so on. We can have i-net conference about it.

28. Darya10/18/2006 16:14:02
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

What would be the criteria for the breeders to join you? Would just owners be able to join you as well?

29. shael10/19/2006 02:52:59
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

Anyone who respect princips of whole blood.

30. Darya10/19/2006 03:44:33
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

That sounds good. Can we have a list of main points (principals) that are important to you and you respect most? Would be good to hear what you are against as well.
Thank you.

31. shael10/19/2006 04:09:46
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

We are against of biotechnolodies and sistem of estimations.
We are for audit of Book, by breeder's society. If we can not control Book, we need to create corporative Book and to admit this book only.

32. Darya10/20/2006 08:55:46
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

Could you make it clear for me, if you are against systems of estimations, what is selection meant to be based on and what the society would advise to breeders, i. e., what are the guidelines for breeders from this association? Or is it personal choice of a breeder? If so, how do we make sure that it does not happen that someone goes to their horses and simply trying to see, how far they can mutate them? How would this organisation make sure that the breed is kept healthy&sound? Sooooo many questions.

33. shael10/20/2006 09:23:59
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

Every step is personal CHOICE of breeder.

34. Hans-Jurg Buss10/20/2006 09:33:36

Dary, it's nice that you are enthusiastic, but do not go too fast. With or without a new inerntaional breeders association any breeder may do what he wants. If he decides to breed two defect pure breds the offspring will remain a pure bred, most probably however with defects. You can not "make sure that it does not happen" just by writing some guidelines by a new organization.

35. Darya10/20/2006 10:44:24
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

Thank you for understanding, but I see other organisations where they approve their stallions, for example, so that the mare owners can not be decieved and use a stallion for the mare that has got deffects, and should not be approved. So that gives people and the breed some kind of protection. I know for every rule there will be someone to try and break it, but may be it is a good idea to have something like that. Could it be the way to secure healthy future for the breed? And are there any other suggestions on trying to achieve that? Or does it not make the sence to at least try?

36. shael10/20/2006 11:12:23
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru

Darya, you are personl can oder this approvement from any person, whom you trust. I want to see such organization, wich will come to me or to Klimuk to approve our horses. In general, all other come to us to take horses not to the contrary.
If you can not understand such simple things, why did you decide to breed pureblood breed?

37. Darya10/20/2006 12:48:32
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

Ok, I understand, I guess it is just me being worried about things I should not worry. There will always be people doing bad things, and there will always be people doing good and amazing things. I guess all I should be concearned with is making sure that I do good things and do my best to learn how to do it. Thank you very much. It all helps me to make up my mind and my own strong opinion, as without one it is the road to failure.

38. Hans-Jurg Buss10/20/2006 13:46:17

Darya, you got it.

39. Hans-Jurg Buss10/20/2006 15:16:02

Jessica, coming back to your initial issue: "As it appears one might think that the General Akhal-Teke Stud book is owned and operated by both associations". That is really what it looks like. But things seem to be different from whate they look like. And within the "main tasks of MAAK" cited above by you there is in fact no mention of management of Studbook. "Copyright" of Studbook is obviously only with VNIIK. The questions are what does "copyright" in practice mean and what possible consequences this situation may have for an alternative international breeders association.

40. Christoph Vogel11/13/2006 17:50:54
Homepage: http://www.achal-tekkiner.ch

Why does it is so difficult to transform MAAK into an organization similar to that of the WAHO? We could learn a lot from their long experiences managing a breed on a word wide basis! VNIIK is a member of WAHO since years! We do not have to reevent the wheel! The solution is well known - the way to get there is the problem!

There is missing the will of MAAK and VNIIK to transform - what do they have to loose?

For WAHO see: http://www.waho.org/

41. Jessica 11/14/2006 08:25:24

Christoph,
It is to late for the Teke breed to create the WAHO concept, we have the wrong people to much involved in the breed, in the west no visionaries, no big thinkers but mostly backyard breeders that only look for protecting their own, in most cases mediocre, horses from competition and also work to keep the public in the dark so that the breed standard can be fit to their own horses, I see examples of this every day. The backyard breeders are in majority and they will not change their attitudes.
In Russia there are several professional breeders with great horses and great visions mixed with new producers that are attracted to the breed's present hype and they will not be interested in changing the system as they use it for their own profit. The Russian breeders that want a change are supressed by a totalitarian MAAK that dictates every detail in the breed.
If you follow the history of the Arabian horse in the west you can see that WAHO was created by intelligent people that could see beyond their own horses and wallets, the ideology was democracy transparancy, the love was for the breed not your own horses.
You ask what T. Ryabova and N. Abramova, the management of MAAK have to loose, they have everything to loose and so far in history, no one lets go of power from free will.
You will have to find a large enough group of visionaries and ideologists that can create a successful entity, maybe not completely like WAHO but maybe something similar. This, my friend, is the challenge!

42. Prisse01/19/2007 05:53:29

Last October Hans-Jurg wrote about MAAK: Just think about this: how can you join an organization with such a President?
That president died last December.
(Much more) unfortunately also G. Kyarizov might be dead by now.

It is interesting to see what changes it will bring to MAAK. If any.
Thank You all for clarifying comments. Especially Maria's translation of Leonid's writing was very useful.

It is sad that "WAHO" seems such a distant goal in A-T world. Maybe we would also need proud and extravagantly spendthrift arabian sheiks...??

43. Chris02/21/2007 08:45:00

Thank you maria for the translation of Why I disagree with MAAK by M Babaev, I was looking for that on the shael site. In the United States different breeds (Morabs, for example) have split their organization. The breed (to the very important buyer of said breed) appears weaker and the events (shows and championships) are poorer. The US Akhal-Teke breeders rely heavily on MAAK for purity issues and registration. Most are aware of the organizational machinations in MAAK but are hopeless to do anything to improve things. Imports seem to come from only a few sources overseas, notably Dubna. Are the purity issues artificial? What other issues are artificial? Of course someone may claim anything they like (pro or con) for the sake of profit... Please, where is MAAK headed today and who is running it?