Monday 18th, December 2006
PermaLink Credability problems for MAAK 12/18/2006 08:06 AM
During the weekend I received a letter that is distributed as written by Dr Tatyana Ryabova.  

Here is the letter, below the letter my comments.

"Akhal Teke Horses in the United States.
Not so long ago, the leading countries in the breeding of Akhal Teke horses were Turkmenia, the traditional home of the breed, followed by Russia and Germany. Not many changes were expected in the near future, but then Tito Pontecorvo appeared unexpectedly. With a strong will, and great energy, he established the Tito Pontecorvo Stables during the era of "depression" in Russia, and began breeding Akhal Teke horses, which were then dismissed by Soviet farming authorities as "non-productive".

The beginning of the saga took place in Ratmino, a small but cozy stables. With the growth of the business, Tito Pontecorvo needed more space, enough to keep several hundred horses. So a new, large, Horse Complex has appeared bordering a rather small Russian village outside the town of Dubna, and some 100 kilometers from Moscow on the banks of the Volga River.

This new stables has attracted many people who are interested in Akhal Tele horses, and led to the organization of the growing number of breeders, riders and owners into the International Association of Akhal Teke Breeders (MAAK) which was born in the conference rooms of Tito's new horse complex, which contains 250 stalls, a hotel, indoor manage, conference rooms, staff quarters, a mill, a power plant and everything needed for a large horse operation, as well as extensive pastures along the river.

Tito decided to open a new Akhal Teke stud farm in the United States in 1997 while maintaining his operation in Russia. In Russia he has continued with the Fakir-Pelvan line through the stallions Tagir and Helvar, as well as the Kaplan line through the stallions Amanat, from Kerzi, and Alabahar.

Foals of these stallions are consistent winners in differents divisions in the annual Akhal Teke World Championships in Moscow.

In the United States, the following work has been done:

Karlavach line – through Kogan (Koshili-Girel). Kogan has shown very good results in jumping during a competitive career in California under a top American rider, and is an extremely handsome black stallion.

Gelishikli line, - through Gigant (Gektor-Akbella 14), Gigant, a large grey stallion of exquisite conformation stands 17 hands, and has produced a group of well built foals with correct conformation, excellent movements and talent for jumping.
Gigant is an exceptional jumping horse.

Aksakal Line – through the children of of Munir to include Maruk (Munir-Ataka), Mamuk (Munir-Abray). Foals from this line are not so large but have excellent movements and talent for jumping. Foals of this line represent classical Akhal Teke types.

Sere line through Aad who comes from Angar-Azochka.
El line – through Arim (Melesur-Abray) and Helm (Melesur-Han Bibi). Foals from these stallions are exceptional quality, large, well built, wonderful movements and rather typical of the best of the Akhal Teke breed.

*Helm is rarely beaten in dressage competition at Third Level, and will compete at Prix St. Georges in the coming year. He shows a very good trot and canter, which, no doubt, comes from his ancestor Absent, who won a gold medal at the Rome Olympics in Dressage.*

Kaplan Line – Through Pan (Amanat – Pergazel).

The production of the Pontecorvo Stud in the United States has been quite successful. The work over the last ten years has produced larger, show quality Akhal Teke horses who are competing successfully in the classical events against the traditional breeds of show horses.

The establishment of the Pontecorvo Stud in Texas has pushed the United States into third place among the Akhal Teke producing countries of the world, now only surpassed by Russia and Turkmenia.

Tito holds the largest group of Akhal Teke horses in the United States, and the quality is the best. His breeding stock is carefully chosen, and benefits from his many years of working with the Akhal Teke. The best offspring of elite horses were brought to America, including Abray, Sona, Gumri, Aksona, Enegul, Duygurgush (Turkmenia), Gerel, Han Bibi, Ataka, Stallions Gigant and Amelit (Kazakhstan), Munir (Northern Caucases), and the mares Magnolia, Mumme, and Galateya.

I would like to thank everyone who has done so much to preserve and improve this magnificent breed of exotic horse, the Akhal Teke. We often talk about preserving historical values, but actions speak much louder than words. And, with that in mind, I look forward to meeting Tito Pontecorvo on "Planernoy" again, as he will be full of ideas and plans for the future of the Akhal Teke in the USA."

My comments
I ask myself if a scientists that Dr Tatyana Ryabova would write such a letter filled with facts faults that actually contradicts her own work with the studbook.
This leads to my first question to MAAK, is it good for the integrity of the studbook to change data inscribed there to promote one breeder?
To illustrate just one fact fault is that the stallion Gigant is inscribed as 166 cm (16.1 h) in the studbook but in the letter his height is referred to as 170 cm (17 h).

Should the management of the studbook and managing director of MAAK be involved in writing letters filled with unverified subjective evaluations such as “extremely handsome black stallion”, “exquisite conformation”.
This is not only subjective but also a terminology not used by professionals in describing the conformation of a horse.

“Helm is rarely beaten in dressage competition at Third Level………he shows a very good trot and canter, which, no doubt, comes from his ancestor Absent,…..”

Who did the writer think would read this letter, morons?
In the real horse world you ask for and publish, where and placing in the competition, and let the reader him/herself decide the quality of the show results. How can someone in Tatyana’s position agree to undersign such statements. Be assured that no other studbook would even consider publish such unverified statements about a stallion. The reasons are obvious. The fact that a studbook manager refers the quality of the gaits in one horse to one single ancestor in the fourth! generation will certainly be the laugh of the century.

Statistics again, how many Tekes are there in Russia, Turkmenistan and the USA, numbers please, does the USA have more Tekes than Kazakhstan? I do not know?
Please studbook manager, figures not fiction.

The title “Akhal-Teke Horses in the USA” ??? What about the other owners, breeders of Tekes in the USA, what about the breeders that introduced the breed?

After such a subjective letter filled with fiction and fact faults, who will ever trust her grading points?

I think MAAK has taken a giant leap into the fairytale world and forgotten that the Tekes actually live in the real world.
Comments :v

1. me12/18/2006 08:52:55


The production of the Pontecorvo Stud in the United States has been quite successful.
Is producing rescue horses a sign of success?
Giving away horses close to death, or even dying on the truck leaving the "Successful" Pontecorvo Stud...
I guess success is measured in different ways....



2. Blanca12/18/2006 08:58:14


Why this letter now? is there any reason?



3. shael12/18/2006 08:59:54
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


Jessica, never mind. We must do our job.



4. Todd Keith12/18/2006 10:06:51
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/


Blanca,
New Tito worshiper recruits! They are working to promote the new Pontecorvo Trust.

Leonid,
It is hard to not react....



5. maria12/18/2006 10:09:41


You don't believe Tatiana had written the letter, do you???



6. Allegra Steck12/18/2006 10:12:14


Jessica,

I was told by Natasha that the quote regarding Helm was not written by Tatyana, but by Helm's trainer (owner ?).

Allegra



7. maria12/18/2006 10:25:08


Allegra, what about the rest of the letter? It doesn't sound like Tatiana's style to me. Is there a Russian version?



8. maria12/18/2006 10:26:24


I have translated a few writing by Tatiana, she has a very distinct style in Russian, I don't recognise it in this letter.



9. maria12/18/2006 10:28:16


or it could just be a bad translation



10. Jessica12/18/2006 11:06:59


Blanca, the reason for this letter being sent out now is obviously the Pontecorvos has cashed in on their so called rescue sale last spring and now are ready to promote themselves again, having culled out most of their starvation victims to Teke newbies in the USA that doesn't know better. Fortunately few Teke breeders are cruel enough to pull off such a scam again.
Leonid, part of my job, and obligation, as a breeder and professional in the horse business is to prevent scam, fraud and abuse of people and horses in our business. My job is prohibited and destroyed by the actions of the so called International Akhal-Teke Breeders Association, in my world, the real horse world, the professionals quickly dismiss the MAAK as obscure and not valid the amateurs are fooled into making the wrong decisions in making big investments in our breed. So were do I go for an objective evaluation of my horses that I, like breeders in all parts of the world are depending on for the development of the breeding program and business. Unfortunately part of my job with the heavenly breed has become to work for higher standards within this breed.
Maria, the letter was presented as a translation of a Russian letter written by Tatyana Ryabova. It was sent out to editors of newspapers and magazines, national as well as international among others. Of course professionals in the media world will see through the language and also run into problems with verifications of the claims that are made. I am like you, surprised to see a letter like this being written by Tatyana Ryabova but this is the information I, the media and other people in the Teke community has received. Embarrassing to say the least.



11. Sigrid12/18/2006 11:40:43


Another fault in this strange letter. The mentioned elite mares Ataka (died in Germany in 2000) and Galateya (she lives in Switzerland for years) were NOT imported to the US.
A shame that in the name of the manager of the breed was spread such a primitive advertising for one studfarm.



12. Allegra Steck12/18/2006 12:42:53


Hi Maria,

No, I have to say it does not sound like Tatyana's verbage to be so...glowing, although some of it does sound succinct and to the point like she usually is. I have always found her to be very sparse in her praise and never effusive. Unless the original written article is procured, we will never know if the interpreter might have taken a liberty or two.

Allegra



13. Hans-Jurg Buss12/18/2006 13:05:39


We all may speculate ... personally I do not think that Mrs. Ryabova has written this letter (language, culture, purpose of letter speaks against that). But the easiest and normal way would be to ask Mrs. Ryabova directly .... And in a normal world she would clarify immediately by herself when somebody publishes letters in her name she has not written or given consent for. ... in a normal world.



14. maria12/18/2006 13:14:11


All, I will put a bet on Mualim's pink nose that the letter was NOT written by Tatiana. I have read loads of her articles in AT Inform in the last couple of years - the full Russian versions, rather than the succinct translations at the end of them - and they sound really different. In particular, she is in the habit these days of writing about her Teke travels, eg both trips to France have articles on them, a trip to Benelux. I will eat my words if I am wrong - will try to contact Abramova or Kuznetsova this Thursday and ask.



15. Jessica12/18/2006 14:04:02


I would say it is quite daring to send out a promotion letter for your stud farm to the Teke community, the general public and the media claiming that it has been written by the studbook manager if it is not.
If the Russian signed original as well as a confirmation by the author cannot be presented, I would be the first one to help communicate the facts in this matter.
Maria, it would be great if you can take some time on Thursday to check this up if we haven't heard anything by then.



16. Blanca12/18/2006 16:02:04


It woud be good if Maria could check...I was reading the leter again and found amazing statements...I■m not sure the Kazakh breeders would be very happy if they read that "the leading countries in the breeding of Akhal Teke horses were Turkmenia, Russia and ...Germany..."



17. Blanca12/18/2006 16:04:00


By the way, and changing subject,have you seen the Maak plans for the development of the breed until 2010?



18. Todd Keith12/18/2006 16:31:19
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/


Blanca,

Which plans?
Please inform.

Todd



19. Blanca12/18/2006 16:46:18


Todd, Leonid has the article in his web. There is a sum up -in French, which makes my life easier- in the annual newsletter of the French AT Association.

Tomorrow I will try to post the main highlights



20. shael12/18/2006 17:22:13
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


http://www.shael-teke.com/web/shael.nsf/Articles/40E35DFFE481218185257216004DD1C8



21. Todd Keith12/18/2006 17:39:38
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/


Thank you Leonid & Blanca.
Do you have the original document from VNIIK?
This would be interesting reading.
I babelfished Leonid's article. Not the best translation, of course, but I understand most of it....



22. maria12/18/2006 17:57:13


Where do we get to see the original? The one on Leonid's site is "A view from the side" - a response to the Plan and is very funny!



23. Darya12/18/2006 18:19:21
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


I am sure this is not Tatyana's letter.. What is the world coming to? How does one maintain credibility when there are people capable of doing this are around?



24. Dasha Cole12/19/2006 17:52:01
Homepage: http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com


Hello dear Friends,

The work of Dr. Tatyana Ryabova was published in "Konevodstvo i Sport" magazine in March of 2006 in Russia. I thought it could be interesting for all of us to know more about the lines and the work which was done by Tito Pontecorvo and Natasha Pontecorvo in Russia and in the US.

The original could be found in "Konevodstvo i Sport" copy or if you are interested I can fax it to you. Write me e-mail and I will send it over. dashacole@gmail.com

I will only fax it to those who have friendly intentions and willing to learn rather than speculate.

As to friendly comments towards Tito I will stay neutral at this point. It is obvious, that he is, as a breeder is well known and respected. His illness in spring can not cross out the years of his work and dedication to the breed.

We all know that there are best sports stallions offered for breeding this season, many of these stallions has changed hands such as Dolomit came to us in Sarasota, Florida, Munir is standing at Allegra`s - these are the stallions from Aksakal line "please look at the article", Grom and Murmansk is at April`s, Flora has beautiful stallions.
Aad by the way may be available for the limited breeding since he is an older stallion.
Arim for those dreaming of Akhal Teke dressage prospect and Kogan with Grand Prix jumping ability.

I honestly do not know about other stallions in America so if owners will send me their information I will try to track their linage and learn more about them.

So, I think thinks are looking more and more promising for the next year foals. I am sure Tito and Natasha would try to share the knowledge that they have to help you to connect your mare with the right stallion. That’s all to that.

Back yard breeding programs and experiments I think are encouraging but I think it takes global vision, cultural background and experience to be able to consult on breeding and creating new Akhal Tekes.

Enormous work was done by Tito on different lines in order to receive Akhal Teke horse which is suitable and competitive for different applications in American traditional sports.

Helm remarks are coming under the * if it has not been deleted from my original translation and is valuable reference by Helm`s owner to connect Akhal Teke breed to today`s dressage in America. They are not part of the published article and that’s why it appears under ** .

If you have questions please write me. I am also working on another research on lines and will be able to bring some up to date information which will be available for soon on the Internet.
My Best Regards.
Dasha Cole
P.S. I will provide you with contact information for Dr.Ryabova later for all the questions and concerns.



25. Dasha Cole12/19/2006 19:47:06
Homepage: http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com


THE NAME OF HELM'S TRAINER: REINHARD DORSCH

HIS WEBSITE: WWW.CLASSICDRESSAGETRAINING.COM

THE OWNER OF HELM IS: WILLIAM ASKINS

ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT HELM: 1-830-438-75-17 FAX WILLIAM ASKINS

DR.T.RYABOVA IS AVAILABLE BY CELL PHONE: 7-910-903-74-07

ADDRESS: TATYANA N. RYABOVA
INSTITUTE KONEVODSTVA /VNIIK/
RIBNOVSKII RAION
RYAZANSKAYA OBLAST' 391105

TO ORDER THE MAGAZINE FROM RUSSIA CONTACT
JULIA KYZNETSOVA BY PHONE: 7-495-976-10-03



26. shael12/20/2006 02:04:14
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


It is wonderfull. If breeder has fanclub, it means a lot.



27. Darya12/20/2006 04:21:40
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


Very dedicated fanclub indeed. It very much confuses me though, cos I would think that someone like T Ryabova should stay pretty neutral...



28. maria12/20/2006 08:27:29


Dasha, is Konevodstvo i Sport available online by any chance? I can't find it, I am afraid. Any chance you could scan the original article and send it to me at maria.marquise@reuters.com? I haven't got a fax.

By nostalgic coincidence, I used to read Konevodstvo i Sport as a little girl in the 1970s and the walls of my bedroom were plastered with cuttings from it, so I consider myself a deserved potential recipient of the aricle



29. Dasha12/20/2006 09:06:19
Homepage: http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com


Maria,
I will do that but it should it take a little time, OK? We are making arrangements for our stallion to go to stand at the large farm and we are running around pretty fast now.
Are you standing your stallion for this year?
He is very pretty.
Also I will be working on the translation of another article
"S Pesney po Amerike" of Dr.Ryabova where Dr. writes about many Akhal Teke breeders in America. It`s old article from 1999 but I consider any information is worth while reading.

Also the translation of Letter will be coming soon.



30. Blanca12/20/2006 09:22:18


I start thinking like Leonid..."never mind, we must do our job"...



31. Allegra Steck12/20/2006 10:33:14


Dasha,

It is not Munir who is here with me but his son Maruk. I believe Munir is dead if I am not mistaken.

Allegra



32. Jessica12/20/2006 15:18:08


Well Leonid and Blanca of course you are right, if you have good enough horses you really do not need the Ministry of Corruption, the Self Proclaimed Celeb or the Instant Expert to do your marketing.
Allegra, Munir might be dead or "herding sheep in the mountains", you never know!



33. Jessica12/20/2006 15:46:24


Konevodstvo did a Teke special issue in 1988 ISSN 0023-3285.
Quite a few interesting articles. I have it translated into Swedish so that will not be of much help. It is a nice magazine to have though, some great pictures to. I do not know if you would be able to get hold of one copy somehow. A lot of translation work.
Sabine Toepfer-Gebert also did German translations of many Konevostdvo Teke articles I think beginning from before the 50's. You might be able to get a copy of the German translations from her. I am a little bit disappointed in the last article though as I have not before seen editorial material containing such obvious errors. The magazine must be, or at least was an institution in the Russian Equestrian world. However I would really appreciate your translation and read it again.



34. maria12/20/2006 16:11:39


Dasha, I am not standing Mualim at stud in the forseeable future. He has to earn "his ladies" by perfecting his less-than-perfect manners on the ground first and obtaining a few dressage points. I expect this to take several years, until then he has to stay celibate It's nice to hear you think he is pretty, however, in his behaviour he merits praise for bravery more than for being a gentleman: na pole bitvy - ofitser s shashkoi, a na balu damam na nozhki nastupaet. Look forward to the article.



35. Dasha12/20/2006 19:57:04
Homepage: http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com


Allegra,
I am sorry for Maruk mistake, I was looking at the pictures of Aksakal line and Munir was inprinted in my memory. Are you standing Munir this year?



36. Dasha12/20/2006 21:09:17
Homepage: http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com


I will be very soft in my comments to today’s happening. Jessica has copied my private e-mail list of friends and partners which she has received with my translation of article of Dr.Ryabova. She, then has sent them the article which promotes controversy between Russia and America. She has also called the list “Akhal Teke Fan Club”. Not only has this article clearly demonstrated “the evil Russians who killed Akhal Teke horses” it also backfires all the attempts which were done by many state departments to promote piece and cooperation between Russia and America. I worked as Interpreter for State Department of Education and spent six years interpreting for the cultural program which brings the piece between America and Russia through education of Russian business owners and business exchange. I wish Jessica after immigrating to America will support the piece and intentions of this country to avoid the confusion and misunderstandings. Being a citizen of America and loyal supporter of friendship between Russia and America I can not translate such an article which clearly demonstrates not only the lack of historical knowledge of Swedish foreign national but also try to complicate the political situation on the level of cultural communications between the countries. Some people who has received Jessica`s e-mail were extremely upset that Akhal Teke horses were brought in as a tool to expose Russia and Russians in such a negative setting. I hope Jessica and Todd understand that any publicity which involves political issues bring more controversy and provide negative publicity to the Russian breed of horses and Russian people. Please do not steal my e-mail list anymore!



37. Dasha12/20/2006 21:11:58
Homepage: http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com


Hello all,
I'm happy to "meet" with this new group of Teke enthusiasts. My name is Jessica Eile Keith and with more than 15 years with the heavenly breed I'm still an enthusiast. Me and my husband Todd introduced the golden horses to Sweden more than 15 years ago and in 2005 we relocated our stud farm to sunny Florida and actually by doing so we introduced the sacred horses to Florida!
Those of you who live in Florida are more than welcome to visit our Tekes. They love people and attention. For the real interested we also have a great archive with facts and pictures about this breed. Until you have time to come by, check our web site at http://www.karakumstud.com
We are also happy to announce that we are able to sponsor the dream about the golden horse about having our breed champion Rosanna as cover girl and color model for the brand new release of the Breyer Akhal-Teke model. Here is the Breyer cover picture taken by the famous equestrian photographer Dwayne Snyder.

Dascha, as you are such a great translator maybe you can translate the saga about Rosanna to Russian and send it back to Konevodsto Sport and to the MAAK in Russian, I think they would be interested to read about the breed's successes in the USA. That would be a neat exchange of news!

Here is an article that was published on Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty's web site in September, a longer interview with me and my husband was broadcasted over Central Asia and Russia. It would be fun to find out if anyone in this Teke enthusiast group listened to it!
The article can be found at:
http://www.rferl.com/featuresarticle/2006/9/3430913F-E07F-4DBE-8557-248A7F32C85E.html

Turkmenistan: Legendary Horses Look To Make Comeback
By Julie A. Corwin
A purebred Ahal-Tekes horse
(courtesy photo)


Horse fanciers in the former Soviet Union have long known about the beauty, speed, and stamina of the Ahal-Teke breed native to Turkmenistan. But despite attempts to spread the word about this breed, the Ahal-Teke remains obscure to most of the rest of the world. A small community in the United States is trying to spread interest across the Atlantic Ocean. But the cause of the horse was dealt a major blow when one of the most talented Ahal-Teke breeders in the world, Geldy Kyarizov, was imprisoned by Turkmen officials in 2002. Today, some of the world's best Ahal-Tekes farms are located not in Turkmenistan but in Russia.

WASHINGTON, 22 September 2006 (RFE/RL) -- Some experts will tell you the Ahal-Teke is the oldest horse breed in the world.

These tall, elegant animals reportedly caught the attention of early explorers -- like Marco Polo and Alexander the Great -- for their ability to cover long distances in the desert with little water.

Nearly a century and a half after their slaughter at Russian hands -- and following more than half a century of the erratic consequences of Soviet policies -- the future of the vaunted Ahal-Tekes looks like it could be decided not in its ancestral home in Turkmenistan, but in Russia.

Struggle To Survive

But the Ahal-Tekes have not survived without a struggle.

The Teke tribe, a nomadic people who lived around an isolated oasis in southern Turkmenistan, preserved the horse over the centuries by refusing to allow it to be crossbred.

But when the horse's guardians, the Teke, came under siege in the 19th century, so did the horses.

In the 1870s, the Teke tribe had been successfully resisting the advance of the Russian imperial army in part because of their speedy horses.

Jessica Eile-Keith is an Ahal-Teke breeder based in Florida. She describes what the Russian army decided to do once they came.

"The Russian Army knew the Tekes were difficult to get because of their horses," she said. "So they said, 'If we kill the horses, the Teke won't survive.' And they slaughtered a lot of horses, and after that the breed almost disappeared."

Revival

Almost two decades later, the Russians came to the horses' rescue. In 1897, they established a stud farm. And in the late 1920s, Russian scientists began the stud book for the breed that is still used today. Only horses whose parents are registered in the book can be considered Ahal-Teke.

During the Soviet era, the Ahal-Tekes' fortunes waxed and waned. The horses suffered during the collectivization of agriculture under the Soviets. Some Turkmen owners let them run loose in the desert rather than allow them to become part of big collective farms.

Later, the breed was considered prestigious enough for Marshall Georgii Zhukov to ride in a Moscow victory parade after World War II.

But during the era of Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, Eile-Keith says the horses faced a new assault from five- and 10-year economic plans.

"Ahal-Tekes ended up in the slaughterhouse -- like many other good horses -- to fill up the meat quota," she said.

Presidential Support

The current period should offer a respite for the Ahal-Teke.

After all, Turkmen President Sapurmurat Niyazov is reportedly a member of the Teke tribe and considers himself a promoter of the breed. He has been giving them as gifts to world leaders at a furious pace, and spent an estimated $25 million to construct an equestrian center.The entrance to President Niyazov's stables in Ashgabat

But with some 1,000 purebred Ahal-Tekes born each year -- compared to more than 100,000 English thoroughbreds -- the Ahal-Teke arguably needs talented breeders more than publicity and nice stables.

And Eile-Keith would argue that horse breeding is one of the rare professions that involves as much art and passion as science.

"We have today three big names in Ahal-Teke breeding -- [in Stavropol] Aleksandr Klimuk; and we have an upcoming big breeder in the Moscow area, a Daghestani man called Leonid Babaev," she said. "In Turkmenistan, there was the former [head of the state association of horse farms, Turkmenatlar], Geldy Kyarizov, who breeds magnificent Ahal-Teke horses. And he is not breeding horses today due to 'problems.'"

Kyarizov was head of the Turkmenatlar horse farms in 2002 when he was arrested by the Turkmen secret police and sentenced to six years in jail for negligence and abuse of authority. Amnesty International notes that there are allegations that the charges against him were fabricated, and that the true reason for targeting him was that he fell out of favor with President Niyazov.

Water for the farm where about 90 of Kyarizov's horses are living was disconnected this July. The farm is the birthplace of Yanardag (Volcano), one of Kyarizov's champion Ahal-Teke stallions whose profile graces the national emblem of Turkmenistan.

Russian Studs

Eile-Keith says that now the best Ahal-Teke breeders in the world are in Russia. And, the best stud farm is located in Stavropol Krai.

Eile-Keith and her husband, Todd Keith, are raising Ahal-Tekes on their small farm in Florida. While the hot but wet Florida weather is quite a bit different from the dry climate of the Karakum Desert, she says her Ahal-Tekes seem to like it.

They are moving slowly, introducing the breed to the multibillion-dollar, horse-racing industry of Kentucky. Earlier this month, a brown colt sold for more than $8 million in a yearling thoroughbred sale. Ahal-Tekes typically fetch much lower prices -- starting at about $15,000 to $20,000.

Will the Ahal-Tekes ever be valued as highly as English thoroughbreds? Eile-Keith says the current stock of Ahal-Tekes needs to be improved so that they look "like they did when they were in top demand a few hundred years ago."

"That [work] is being done foremost in Russia today to try to recreate the breed to its former greatness. And [today's]...horse market is very competitive. There are very many attractive breeds bred by very, very skillful Western breeders. And if you introduce a new breed, that breed must be high quality horses for these people to even look at them."

So, nearly a century and a half after their slaughter at Russian hands -- and following more than half a century of the erratic consequences of Soviet policies -- the future of the vaunted Ahal-Tekes looks like it could be decided not in its ancestral home in Turkmenistan, but in Russia.





38. maria12/21/2006 03:34:42


Dasha, the article above surely demonstrates that Jessica holds many Russian breeders in high regard, doesn't it? Besides, she and Todd have been to CIS, have many friends there and organised trips for Swedish people to Russia, so why do you say they are jeopardising Russian-American relations? Anyway, if we take Russian-American relations at governmental levels, I sometimes wouldn't mind jeopardising one or two... But that's my own personal position, unrelated to the owners of the blog.



39. Darya12/21/2006 04:56:13
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


I always found it fascinating, how old military tactics and tricks can be so brutal, but so effective and clever. They are very hard to look at by modern human's eyes though. I find it easier to look at them imagining them as a game of toy soldiers, than one can see how clever they are. One should not look just at the actions, but also at the conditions and the reasons and remember that the thinking was different at different points in history. Russia was always in a difficult position between east and west and had to always protect its borders by whatever means. Some places were easier to conquer and convert, than trying to constantly withstand hectic attacks. I do agree that the article portreys Russian nation in general (not Russian AT breeders) as some brutal savages. What one should remember is that it was different time and everyone was different than, any other nation. Looking at facts like these throughout all the history is encouraging in a way as we can clearly see the change for the better. But it is sad to still see so many conflicts and slayings around the world. The way I normally look at that is it is natural protection from overpopulation. Cruel as it is, a part of complicated and clever mechanism of survival. At those times human life was not of much value, not to say of some horses, no matter how "heavenly".

I hope I didn't confuse anyone, just my reflections on the subject.

Peace and love to all,

Darya



40. Jessica12/21/2006 08:03:04


I did reply to an email, (I did not steal a sendlist) sent to me by Dascha Cole with an article written by T. Ryabova, as I figured the article was sent out to people interested in the Teke breed I sent another article that was not written by me but by a reporter from Radio Free Europe, if you are interested in what Radio Free Europe stands for and who is their biggest supporter, you can go to their web site and read more. I also attached some very good news for the breed, the fact that Breyer is releasing an Akhal-Teke model horse, I guess for many that is great news, also the fact that the cover girl is in Florida for people to see in the flesh I would say is worth sharing. I am flattered that you and you famous and influential friends make me such a VIP in international politics! I come from a culture were democracy, freedom and free speech are sacred just like it is here in the USA. That is why I also participated in the interview by Radio Free Europe.
But today the best and biggest news is the fact that there is a change in the leadership in Turkmenistan and that might help the dire situation for Geldy Kiarizov.



41. Blanca12/21/2006 09:25:34


Maria, I just want to say that I'm happy to see your approach about Mualim and breeding: bravo!

If many people were like you we would quickly increase the quality of the tekes here in the West



42. Maria12/21/2006 15:27:35


Jessica and all, it is indeed fascinating to see what's going to happen in Turkmenistan now. If I was to throw a prediction out there, I would not expect a big change... Off to read Central Asian news now.



43. Blanca12/21/2006 16:23:22


Hmm, it■s true, but we can always have miracles...look what happened in Kyrgyzstan, Ukraine, Georgia...although it■s true, in these countries the opposition was not anihilated



44. Jessica12/21/2006 16:33:13


Maybe the power struggle will begin quite soon, Russia certainly has very strong interests to back someone that they can work with. I wonder for how long they will wait for things to settle.



45. Todd Keith12/21/2006 16:37:21
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/


Blanca,
The opposition parties (one in Moscow the other in Sweden) are both weighing their possibilities right now. Both have plans to head back to Ashgabat as soon as they deem it safe enough. They already lost Boris Shikmuradov and are being very cautious...

Todd



46. Blanca12/21/2006 16:53:50


Yes, Todd, but that■s the problem...Niyazov managed to either kill, or send to prison, or kick the opposition out of the country. I■m afraid these people from Moscow or Sweden have lost their connection with the Turkmen society -if they ever had it-. . Turkmen people are too afraid of doing anything "out of the normality", and it will be difficult to change quickly the situation in the nearest future.

What I sincerely hope is that the new establishment will give an amnesty to those people like Geldy, or at least, release a bit the harsh conditions...



47. Jessica12/22/2006 00:11:54
Homepage: http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com


Jessica,
If you wanted to write back to my original e-mail with the translation of Dr.Ryabova you could of just wrote back to me. Indeed, you chose to steal, spam, copy or illegally distribute information to people who has not requested it from you. Nothing more to it.

You know better, don`t steal people`s e-mail lists.

Your speculation about the freedom of speech has no backing as well as the publication which was published based on your saying without verifying the facts. I will send your article for the evaluation to Akhal Teke community in Russia and be sure to publish the remarks. Your statements about Russian army killing Teke (Tribe?) are screaming out loud for verification and help. I can send some history books to you if needed.

I understand that you base your promotion campaign on negative publicity but why not have enough common sense and invite Tatyana to the US so please I don`t have to deal with comments of my dressage and Grand Prix jumper trainer that Paikhas who was bred by you has too short legs and too long body and can not be used in any of the sports on any higher level.

Jessica, stop using the breeding to satisfy your personal goals because I am as a rider and promoter of your offspring is hurt. In other defense Dolomit and Moira has been pronounced universally bred for jumping and dressage in any level I want to go. I paid for both of these horses 50% less than I had to pay for one of your horse I can do not much with.

I am sorry since I have no influence on my trainer who has trained for Olympic riders and Yale jumper team. My trainer has shown quite a bit and she actually don`t know much about Akhal Tekes. She tells me what she sees and I go from there. Jessica, maybe enough of breeding mistakes?

Let`s let your ego rest and produce real Akhal Tke horses which can be used in real sport and in real world. Maybe it is the time to reunite with other Akhal Teke breeders and get some really good horses on the ground? How about giving a call to Tito for a start and start being friendly to everyone else in America. I promise you I will buy your foal if Tito helps you breed one. We may even buy two for the art of it.

You are really good about raising the horses but not so good right now about matching the couples because offspring don`t come out right for serious sports. I am just being honest … that`s it.

Why don`t we do Tito breeding consultant and unite the rest of the efforts. Your promotional efforts are outstanding, but it`s hard to promote what you have now other than for the magazine pictures and toy`s models. Let`s get to the real world. Don`t get me too negative as I say if I unite Dolomit, Moira and Paikhas I will have a perfect horse to ride: Dolomit is perfectly beatiful, Moira is outstanding mover and Paikhas has great temper and workability but lacking the show qualites. There is always a space for the improvement it`s the matter of acknowledging it. As you were raised in democratic country I think you will understand me.



48. maria12/22/2006 06:40:32


Dasha, it is a fact accepted by historians worldwide that the decline of Turkmen nomadic life was a consequence of annexation of Central Asian territories to the Russian Empire. It is also an accepted fact that the Russian Army Officers realised that a valuable genepool of ancient horse was about to disappear and set out to preserve it, creating the Zakaspiiskii Stud and the first studbook. It is AGAIN a well-known fact that the horses were sent to slaughter in the Soviet Turkmenistan, and that the film shown on the All-Russian TV in the mid-1980s led to the passing of the law prohibiting horse slaughter in Turkmenistan. The article just recounts well-known facts about the Akhal-Teke breed, accepted by breeders and non-equestrian historians alike. Radio Liberty is a radio-station well-known for its political stance, which was very pro-American and anti-Soviet prior to the fall of the USSR and has since then occupied a broadly center-right position. It is a good, established radio-station, one which I personally do not like very much for the reasons of my own, but in this article, there is absolutely nothing biased, untrue or unusual: it just recounts the well-known, well-established, well-accepted facts of Turkmen history.



49. maria12/22/2006 07:27:27


Dasha, I would also like to challenge your comments about Paikhas and training. How long has Paikhas been in training? Has she been trained by an experienced rider? Unless she has, you cannot say that she is not suitable for dressage and jumping. The vast majority of Akhal-Teke who are physically sound, are capable of dressage, jumping and endurance to a *medium* level. They vary in temperament which will further affect their ability to jump or work on the flat. There is a very long way from "outstanding movements" displayed by a green horse (such as Moira) and achievements in dressage. Many "outstanding movers" NEVER achieve anything at all in competition for a vast variety of reasons: not the right horse-rider combination, soundness issues, workability doesn't match movements, training routine unsuitable for that individual horse which results in the shortening of stride etc etc etc. I only saw Paikhas once as a 2-year-old. She is a normal, sound, correct Teke and according to yourself, she has an easy-going temperament. She should easily be able to work to Medium in dressage (shoulder-in, renvers, travers, pirhouette in walk, extentions, basic flying changes), and jump 1m, given a competent rider. When she is able to do this, THEN and ONLY THEN can you tell whether she has the potential to go further.



50. Todd Keith12/22/2006 10:27:35
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/


Dasha,

Read up on your history. As Maria points out, these are well documented facts.

If you have secret email lists, use bcc in the future. "Reply to All" is built into most email clients today... Using bcc will prevent anyone emailing your secret recipients.

I think your translation shows how biased Tatyana is these days. We would rather use Leonid, Sasha and Geldy (who, according to your translation, did nothing for the breed until Tito showed up... HA!)

Negative publicity campaign??? Check out our KaraKum in the News section. Not too negative there...... and we've only just started.....

If you are so dissatisfied with Paikhas maybe you should consider selling her. She obviously doesn't fit into your sport or breeding goals. We are contacted all the time by people looking for Tekes. Might be able to help...

We have other mentors than you, obviously. Use Tito's advise as much as you want. We choose not to.

As for who's horses will do best in competition... well only competition will show this. See you in the arena!

Todd



51. maria12/22/2006 11:17:55


I still am wondering what the original looks like. Sentences like are not good English and can give a distorted impression of the tone of the original. Personally, I am not convinced that the article is so terribly biased. I have just re-read it and it is not dissimilar to the accounts of Teke travels around Europe, US and CIS Tatiana had written on other occasions. In terms of placing US third amongst the Teke-breeding countries, that could have been simply done on numbers. Also, don't forget, the article was written prior to the crisis which befell the Texas operations. While nobody can fail to sympathise with someone's poor state of health, the welfare issues concerning the horses were simply inexcusable.



52. Jessica12/22/2006 11:44:30


Dascha, the reaction to the features of the typical Teke from people with warmblood background is normal. This you will hear over and over again, you will get used to it. We nowadays take such comments from warmblood people as an indication on that we have typical Tekes. If you loose confidence and begin select for non typical traits in order to please the warmblood people I think you will loose much of what make the this breed so special for so many.

On the other hand you had very nice comments made about Paikhas from the race horse trainer and Bob in Ocala. Bob actually wanted to buy her from you. Paikhas is elite graded by some of the finest judges in this breed, if you after having owned her for more than a year find that you or your advisors do not share this evaluation I strongly recommend that you sell her.
I am a little bit concerned over the way you talk about her, that she will do nothing good for you. Even so I do hope you will continue feed her and not follow the advice of your current breed advisor Pontecorvos and put her on the death row.
I think that she, with the right rider has a great potential.
To keep a horse that you do not like and intend to not breed or ride is not good for the horse and Paikhas has a lovable character and has also always been loved.
Let me know and I can help you find her a home where she will be loved for being a Teke.
I have also recommended you as you are depending on various trainers and advisors for both riding and breeding that you will have to carefully balance the advice you get from different people and you need to educate your general horsemanship and riding skills as well as educate yourself on this breed.
I have a son of Moira, a result of Pontecorvo selection, that I will help find a good home for, he might be of interest for you. Pictures will soon be published on my blog.



53. Heather12/23/2006 11:20:08


It is frustrating to watch personal squabbles become a detriment to promoting tekes in America - especially in Florida where there are a number of us located. Perhaps I should mind my own business, but there are two reasons I will speak out briefly on this issue - 1. I am a neutral observer. I do not own an AT, but am merely in the education stage at this point. I have been both to Jessica and Todd's and Dasha's homes to see their horses, and with ubiased eyes, as I did not know anything about Tito and his legacy at that point. 2. This is an international forum, and while it is easy to sit in the comfort of your home with your morning coffee and type away, it cannot be denied that making accusations here is making them to an enormous international crowd.

When I met Dolomit and Moira at Dasha's home in Florida, I will admit that I was impressed with Dolomit. He has very beautiful coloring, and that long lean and dry look that I have learned to associate with AT's. I cannot say too much for his movement, but it did not seem hindered in any way and with appropriate training and some recovery maybe he will complete very successfully. However, not knowing about Tito or their situation, I was immediately of the opinion that Moira was still at least 300 pounds under weight, and seemed to have some sensitivity in her feet and possible legs. I know that Dasha promotes Tito and his horses, and everyone has a right to their opinion, but this is where I am angered. Even while we are seeing claims of famous trainers predicting grand prix training for these two, I can tell you that Dasha's trainer told me herself that she had been utterly appalled and horrified by the situation for Tito's horses in Texas. She made the comment that Dolomit is not a good eater "perhaps because he had gotten used to having so little available." You would not need to be a horse expert to recognize that these horses were in deplorable conditions, and have LOT of recovery ahead of them. It is wonderful that people have taken on the challenge of their recuperation, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. And most of all, I do not want to see these horses further injured by being pushed into training programs before they are able to sustain the load to their skeletal frames and mental/emotional health.

As to Paikhas, whom I also met - she was a very sweet girl with a wonderful seeming temperament. She was also however, under worked seeming to me, having put on a little girlie curve from her grazing and grains, without a lot of apparent lunge time or exercise.

Dasha, you are lucky to obviously have the money to support your horse goals, but this abuse of Todd and Jessica on their own blog AND the attempt to either misread or misrepresent history as presented by Jessica (who is an excellent historian) is uncalled for and undeserved, and an overall detriment to promoting tekes in US. You and I are of that age when generations start to feel potential as we see how we will soon become to "leaders" of our society in whatever realm we excel... but instead of flying headlong forward towards an undefined or unrealistic goal, it is perhaps wiser to be quiet, ask questions when you can, not judge too quickly, work actively to gain knowledge, experience, and perspective, and most of all never mentor the mentors!



54. Dasha12/23/2006 21:05:47
Homepage: http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com


My dear freinds,
I am really glad that discussion gets to more and more in acceptable temper. As I am busy right now with getting ready for several shows I may not write back on historical points right away since I have sent the article with translation for the comments to Russia. Would like to hear from both camps at this point.
Heather, as sweet as you are, if I would be at your place I woudl start taking riding lessons before you can publish comments on my horses... sorry you almost fell of Rikki who is a lesson horse and well broke on the slow trot on the longe line on my property. I wish I had resources to help you out with riding now but now schedule is really busy so please give me a break on the comments. I may help you out later when we are out of showing.
I really do not want to hurt your feelings but you need to learn as much as I am learning but mostly in the saddle not on the paper.
So I would disregard the comment about Moira weight and Dolomit not eating well because it`s quite fabricated...You don`t know what is right what is wrong because you never had the horse and you never cared for it every day.

By the way, Moira`s pictures will be on the my blog shortly www.akhalteke.homestead.com it`s under the rider.

Towards the history again let`s wait from the report from Russia... maybe we can see more light later.

I can not wait to see the pictures of Moira`s son too.

All I said about Paikhas is what my trainer told me and that is not Kate, that`s Wendy who has trained Gran Prix jumpers and 4th level dressage: short legs, long back, short thick neck ... can not get to extended trot because of short legs, all that is not coming out of my mouht and I hope it would be wrong once I start showing. Paikhas is my first Akhal Teke and she is the most loved one. I am not talking about her personality which is A+ I am talking about her limitations which is preventing her from the future advancements... in a big sport.

It was jus a recomendation for the future offspring to get more Moira or Dolomit type of body because they get easily accepted by trainers who don`t know the breed and just looking at the horses and their potential for the future.

I don`t understand what is wrong with that?

I am not asking to breed Dolomit or Moira, I am asking for better horse next time if possible? I am not bringing up Tito`s April as i wrote million times HE WAS SICK and he got better. I am not praising him he just raised champions in Russia and in America and his experience should be valued and respected in today`s pracitse instead of being ignored because it`s not what the grown ups do. Why reinvent?

What if he does not feel well again so all these work will disappear? Who can show any results on several lines and several foundation stock? Who has a few million dollars to experiment, that`s what it comes to and nothing more and maybe 10-15 years.

It is very limited vision to raise the horse of the one`s imagination but not the one who shall suceed and improve the global perseiption about the breed.

There are so few of these horses, I don`t even see how breeders can compete? There is space for everyone under the sun. But if standarts will not continue to create sport Akhal Tekes there is no reason for breeding them because again there will be no buyers, only curious collectors who will be sold on the rarity and the bloodlines.

If someone will tell me that the house I remodelled is horrible or has a bad design, I will sit down and write down the remarks and try to do a better job next time. I won`t sit and cry that it is beatiful it is not me who will live in there, it has to be what the market wants...

I get so many e-mails every day about Akhal Tekes sometimes I can not answear them all. It is not about who`s horse is better or worse it`s about what the good riders can take and win ribbons on. And that`s what I am trying to pass... I am not picking on personalities on breeding standarts I am forwarding the feedback from what I hear.

Trainers will tell the owners what the owners want to hear and that`s why I think it is so important to ask trainers what they think about three horses and go from there.

As to my ability to see what is going I have learned quite a bit riding horses, galloping ponies in the fields and just practise in the dressage ring.

I will only listen to equals. I would not put myslef down to listen to Heather`s obseravtions or anyobody else who does not have horses or horse experiences and not trying to learn. I will tollerate beginners who is trying with ease, towards paper makers who as being clearly discribed as to sit down and have cup of coffe and write away...not to ride away.
Sorry Heather you need to get back in the saddle ... show me I am wrong.



55. Heather12/23/2006 23:26:48


Dasha,
You continue to show that you do not research before writing. You are correct that I have been out of the saddle for a while - just over 3 years in fact - as your were well informed before I came for a lesson with your trainer, not you. And while it is very wrong of you to make claims that I almost fell off Rikki (that takes a lot of Glogg first, yes, Jessica? ) the truth is that you insulting my current finesse in the saddle is what we in America refer to as the pot calling the kettle black... I am out of shape, no doubt or denying, but have a lot of years of experience in the saddle that will come back as the muscle tone returns post pregnancy. You are still learning, as your trainer Kate Bonda was very honest about.
In reference to your second accusation that I am complete beginner and therefore cannot judge horseflesh, you reveal yourself to me at least. While not everyone on the blog can determine the situation or truth therein, we now can see one another in a clear light. You're right - I have not owned horses myself, because I could not afford to as a kid and was in college until pretty recently. But I've worked since childhood in numerous disiplines and spent my college years as the barn manager for a facility with 24 mares and 6 stallions... So am I an expert? Certainly not. Can I tell that Moira was grossly under weight and sensative in the feet when I saw her? You bet. And your trainer Kate Bonda said the same herself.
It is good then, Dasha, that you admire Tito so much, as I now see you both as two of a kind... dangerous to your horses because you are already an "expert", and dangerous to anyone foolish enough to become too involved with your endeavors because you do not hesitate to slander falsely.



56. shael12/24/2006 05:31:28
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


Dasha, wellcome to visit our Stud.



57. Brenda12/29/2006 01:50:49


I was surfing on the net and came across this blog. I recently bought 2 fillies. One is a palomino weanling that is Half Arabian / Half Akhal Teke - Orlov Rostopchin-Tbred. The other is a Half Arabian / Half Orlov Rostopchin - Tbred who is bred to the sire of the above palomino filly. Anyways, I wanted to know more about the Akhal Teke side. The Akhal Teke in their bloodline is Gorhon. He stood at Ots Sunrise Farm. His Sire is Gigant 17 and Dam Hurma 39. His bloodlines on the sires side is Hutor 17, 971 Halif (828 Fakirpelvan - 1696 Hanum) 1858 Takappara 2 (668 Absent - 1104 Alasu) and the dams side is 2391 Migraciia 21, 904 Melekush (747 Kir Sakar 2i - 1243 Kachahchi), 1739 Gran 42 (852 Azat - 1467 Gulguncha 22) Any information would be appreciated. Thanks, Brenda



58. Allegra Steck12/29/2006 23:45:23


Brenda,

Gorhon was gelded some years ago by the Ots's. I believe, although please don't quote me, that he had some soundness isues in his hocks, either arthritis or OCD, that affected him fairly early on, which was a disappointment as he was a good riding horse. He also sired a purebred filly with a terrible, debilitating parrot mouth despite good breed type. I think this is what led to his gelding. I don't know where he is now, but you can contact the Ots's for more information.

Gorhon's sire Gigant just died this year, he was a prolific sire here in the US with a lot of offspring. Khurma, if I am not mistaken, now stands at a stud in the Netherlands.

I hope this helps,
Allegra



59. Brenda12/30/2006 20:58:49


Thanks Allegra,
I called Ot's already and they faxed me a copy of his papers. They didn't say to much about him. My weanling we think got her color from Gorhon's bloodlines. She is a palomino whose dam was chestnut and sire was supposed to be black, but now they think he is smokey black. I have a 3 yr old chestnut with flaxen mane bred to the smokey and I am hoping to get another palomino. The mare's dam is also closly related to the dam of the palomino.

Thanks,
Brenda



60. Jessica01/01/2007 12:19:04


Heather, I am so sorry for the "treatment" you got in my virtual living room. Of course you go to a training facility to improve your riding skills and not to be insulted.
Well, I have tried to to make sure that neither you nor I will be insulted on this blog for now at least, by closing out Dasha Cole for a while. Please do not refer from posting your observations on your quest for knowledge on this breed!



61. Jessica01/01/2007 12:22:11


Hello Brenda,
I'm interested in the Orlov-Rostopchin blood in your horse, as far as I understand it must have OR's here in the US used for the breeding of your horses, I would also like to see pictures of them and know what your plans are for them.



62. Natasha 01/04/2007 16:13:13


Hello everyone,

I am new to the community, I do not own a horse but I hope to purchase a Teke in the near future. I have ridden for a number of years so I am not entirely cluless. I have some comments and questions, I am not attacking anyone so please don't get the wrong impression. As I said I am a newbie, I have never owned a horse but I have wanted an Akhal Teke since childhood. I recently started showing dogs and I was amazed at the overall discord and negativity surrounding people breeding animals they love. I AM SHOCKED by the trash talking about people and their animals. I had hoped that it wouldn't be the same case with the tekes but I guess human nature is impossible to avoid. It is difficult to figure out which way is up for a new person. There are so few resources and breeders that it drives me insane It seems that everyone dislikes one another, there are rivalries (as with everything) and it is so disheartening that it makes me fearful to purchase a horse. I don't know who to believe, I just know what appears beautiful to me. I want a horse for jumping and endurance so sporting ability is paramount in my future horse. I guess what I am trying to say is that I wish there wasn't such drama in this very small community because I don't know where to start. I found both Jessica's and Tito's website and I think all of your animals are amazing, but how can a beginner avoid a bad decision when there is no unbiased judge to mediate. Until I dug a little deeper it seemd that both of these breeders are very succesfull and influential. Everyone needs a mentor of sorts when diving into something new but I feel like I would never know who to trust and who is trying to unload a sick or unsound animal on me or just plain rip me off. The only farms that I have not yet found negative comments about are Stavropol and Shael Teke but it not easy for me to reach out to those places. Thanks for reading my rant and if anyone can recommend good reading materials/websites/and or breeders who have consistently produced top sporting champions I would appreciate it. Perhaps I want the process of purchasing a horse to be far easier and safer than it could ever possibly be, but I am a bit of a dreamer

Thanks everyone!!



63. Darya01/05/2007 11:00:21
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


Hi Natasha,
I would advise to go to your national AT Association and may be join as a member and just listen and learn. People have heated discussions no doubt, but a lot of it is due to a great passion about the breed and also variety which can create a bit of diversity. I am sure as you meet people and get to know them better, you will find the ones you can trust and enjoy sharing and learning from. In the meantime, try and learn as much as possible and the best way is probably just put Akhal Teke in the search engine. Look up the pictures of horses that are well recognized some of the best in the breed and compare and study all the info. See as many Tekes live as possible. In the end, you can always just enjoy your horse and forget about these "politics". As long as you "do your bit" for the breed showing off and training well your AT, there is no reason why you should not be proud and happy.

Best,

Darya



64. Jessica01/05/2007 11:28:27


Natasha, welcome to my blog. Like Darya said, everything is about your horse, either the horse you own or the horse of your dreams.

The dog and horse world is very much alike, people get into breeding and showing mostly out of passion for what they do, they come from different backgrounds with different competences to breed and show animals.
We have to live with the fact that there is a very nasty and ugly side of the dog and horse worlds. Having said that, I do think that every person that takes on a role in these worlds are responsible for their actions as much as in any other parts of our society.

I must say though that I have met some heavenly people within this breed, people that I would not want to live without! Many of them are frequent visitors on this blog.

Ok back to your horse, the best advice I can give you is to be as specified as possible when you go out and look for your horse and also be honest to the person you are buying from, make sure to make a list of what you want in your horse and also make sure what traits you can compromise on and what traits you cannot compromise on.

If you look for a Teke that is a jumper, then you will want to see the horse jump, it doesn't matter what the breeder tells you about the pedigree, you will jump the horse not the pedigree. Test jump the horse, if the horse is three years and older, test ride it. If the horse is not trained, go for another horse. It is more difficult to buy a younger horse from a breed you do not know, there you will probably look for advice from an experienced person.

You are welcome to ask for advice on this blog, there are several people here that have both long experience with the breed and also train and show horses in different disciplines.

If you live in the USA you can contact me privately for more info on Tekes for sale right now to very low prices, they are not our breedings but are offered to good homes for low prices due to their rough start in life.




65. Natasha 01/06/2007 19:13:52


Thanks so much for the helpful words. One more question are there any lines that are particulary suited to jumping or endurance, as you said pedigree won't get the job done, but it might be a place to start!



66. Brenda01/07/2007 02:22:02


Hi Jessica,
I've tried emailing you at both emails and I keep getting them returned due to your firewall. The Orlov Rostopchins come from Barbara Weber in WI. She imported an elite 1 stallion named Izkusnik. He ended up being put down due to a broken leg when he was 4 (I think). She still owns his offspring and have a bunch for sale including the sire of my palomino, who is also the stallion bred to my 3 yr old chestnut mare. He is the one whose sire is Gorhon and his dam is by Izkusnik out of a T-bred mare. Her website is www.rusianridinghorse.com. My plans for the two fillies are to breed them to eastern european warmbloods and russian breds with golden color. They will also be shown in-hand and in dressage. Have you heard of the Equus Kinsky? My half Han / half Arab mare is bred to a palomino stallion named "Blonder Hans". He is a German warmblood and Equus Kinsky. Is there anyway I can email you to send you pictures?

Brenda
Brendora Arabian Sport Horses



1. maria10/02/2005 17:43:26


Jessica, I have a question about bridles. Mualim has been extremely easy to saddle and ride but he isn't very willing to take the bridle. He keeps throwing his head around, snapping at me etc etc. So I have been riding in a pressure halter.

Should I persevere with bridles or should I just take the easy route and carry on with pressure halter until he looses his bitiness?

I also have another dilemma: I now have a lovely new sandschool and take him there for light lungeing. He is DESPERATE to roll but I usually don't let him because I think he will get used to it and will want to roll with me on him, when I start riding in the school.

Do I:

1) Never let him roll in the school, to avoid the association between it and rolling
2) Let him in the there loose to go for a roll but forbid it when he has cavesson/lunge on
3) Let him roll at the end of the traing session as a reward




2. Jessica 10/02/2005 20:13:51


Maria. Mualim must take his bit when you ask him to. Make sure to check his mouth to see that he hasn't any teeth issues. Then you begin you training sessions with the goal, take the bit nicely. Do not let HIM decide to fuss around with his head and bite you, never allow him to do that. Do not forget to give him a treat when he takes the bit nicely the way you want him to do.
Every time you handle him he will test you as he is a stallion, be patient, consequent and fair and you will do fine.
Stallions like to roll when they come into new pastures, paddocks etc. When Mualim is with you though, it is time for work and he will have to focus on you, not his primitive instincts, no more rolling in the in the school. Rewards are always the same a pat on the neck, good boy and if he was extra nice a treat. Always use the same rewards otherwise he will mix things up.



3. maria10/05/2005 16:48:33


Going better already! "Having the goal" is key. If you plan in advance what you want to achieve, you approach the training session with a much calmer attitude and plan in your head what you would do if things did not go according to plan.

Mualim is so completely trainable! Today he didn't mess around half as much as he did before and looked for his treat as soon as he saw the bridle. "A horse or a monkey?" - I ask.

I then rode right past our old pony and he didn't stop to threaten him with his sexual advances.

In our ground work, I am working on reverse gear in the middle of the field. We have mastered manners in the yard and on the edge of fields, but right in the middle a field it is still "touch-and-go" who is the boss. Every time I win, Mualim makes a hilarious squealing noise, indicating that he is very frustrated but accepts that he had lost the argument! It's very sweet!



1. Heather05/18/2007 13:48:17


Rosewater baths??? I hope I die and come back as a horse!! I keep rose hydrosol in my fridge always!

Crab grass is considered an invasive species in Florida, but if it works for your pastures I say GO for it! It is hard to find seeds though, because it will take over a sodded yard if allowed, and is really hard to get rid of once it has invaded. I would say, just be careful with it near your house if you don't want crab grass landscaping!



2. laurence Bougault05/20/2007 13:17:44
Homepage: http://www.cheval-akhal-teke.com


Do the horses like the crabgrass? It was something that could be named like that in Africa but horses didn't like it.



3. Maria05/20/2007 16:09:58


We had drought in South West England throughout April and beginning of May. Here it really seems to be the illustration of the global warming. Instead of the classic English "April showers" we had six weeks of hot, dry weather at the very time when our meadows should be growing for cutting in late May - early June. Pasture has been going to seed and becoming yellow. Nigel was talking of hiring a digger to dig a big hole in the ground to bury the sheep when they start dying of starvation. At which point, the weather turned and we got some decent rain after all. Still, climate change is so apparent here: with three weeks of monsoon-like rain in February and a drought from June till September last year, and these 6 weeks of heat in April, it's all looking very worrying. BUT - we had hardly any rain at Devon County show! AND - we found a son of Osman 5 miles away from our house!!!



4. Todd05/21/2007 09:19:42
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/


Here's a link with info about crabgrass as forage.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AG195
We'll soon find out how much the Tekes like it!

Todd



5. ANNE-MARIE05/21/2007 10:55:42
Homepage: http://FREEDOMRUNFARM.COM


You can learn something new every day! I had no idea you could use crab grass for hay and forage. Very interesting!



6. maria05/21/2007 11:28:52


What does it look like??



7. Heather05/21/2007 11:29:00


How nice you used the IFAS article! I used to work for that agronomy field station in high school! That's interesting about crab grass though - I never knew that. Hopefully it will propogate for you despite this DRY early summer. Maria, your comments on how much you have witnessed climate change made me think about the cyclical weather we used to have in Florida when I was a kid, and how it is noticably different, even within my short lifetime.



8. Leonid05/21/2007 13:38:23
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


http://www.shael-teke.com/web/shael.nsf/htmlarticles/0995D56F8F2729AB852572E2005C91A5



9. Maria05/22/2007 03:27:57


That's a lovely article! I will try to translate it tonight...



10. Darya05/26/2007 09:49:40
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


My website is now updated about the Devon County Show.
http://www.avatstud.com/Dev_County07.html



11. Hege05/29/2007 17:56:19


Brilliant photo of Todd and Agilas!



12. Leonid06/08/2007 07:38:51
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


http://www.shael-teke.com/web/shael.nsf/htmlarticles/822CB9B469E9B9D8852572F4003D5666



13. Leonid06/29/2007 10:22:45
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


Look: http://www.shael-teke.com/web/shael.nsf/events/18E427B98AAE138E852573090049EABD



14. Tabitha07/10/2007 06:14:04


Are you still there? Did it still not rain over there?
We had Summer in April but since the end of May it rains almost every day. We would love to send some to you if you're still in need .



1. Hege05/02/2006 07:40:35
Homepage: http://NA


Dear Jessica,
thank you for a fantastic website, very informative and honest! Brilliant.. As I am hooked on this breed, , I was wondering how I should approach buying one.. Please could you help?
Will I be able to buy a quality horse from Sweden, or should I consider going to studs elsewhere in Europe? Or even from yourselves (although it would be a loong journey)?
Dressage and endurance riding are my main interests, as this type of horse is so gifted in these fields it would be fantastic to get hold of one. Is there a certain line of akhal teke I should consider? Also, I am willing to go far to get hold of one, price wise as well..How much for a 3 year old quality akhal teke (not a stallion, though)..approximately?
I was also wondering, how long do they live, and are there any types of problems (health wise) to consider? The horse would be living in Norway or Sweden, depending where I end up living!
Also, is there any way of getting advise on their diet, which should be high in protein..? Do you feed your horses that way?
Any advise and comments are very much appreciated, I am grateful if you take the time to read and answer me!
Thank you
Best regards Hege.



2. Jessica 05/05/2006 11:41:04


Hello Hege. You will never regret buying your first Teke, only the Teke less years you had before you sat on your first one.
The Teke breed is very versatile, willing to work and athletic. Combine that with fast reactions and boldness and you have your Formula 1 of the equines. I recommend every first time buyer to take your time to find your Teke, during your quest for your dream Teke you will learn a lot and meet with many interesting Teke breeders that will all have something to teach you.
I would suggest that you start out in Moscow in August to attend to the Moscow Show, there you can see many Tekes performing in different disciplines as well as meet with many Teke people.
Also check my blog for planned competitions and test for the Tekes bred by us that are still in Sweden.
If you buy a Teke without visible health and soundness defects that has had a good upbringing with food and excercise you will have a long time friend, 25 years and above is what to expect.
Tekes need to be fed like any other horse breed, a base of high quality forage (hay or ensilage harvested for horses) complemented with a broad based high proteine feed that will be adjusted to the age of the horse and from what you ask the horse to do.
Tekes compete and train successfully in many equestrian disciplines, most of them compete on national level but we have at least two, Absent (dressage) in the 60's and Pelvan/Love Over Gold (FEI endurance) in the 90's that have competed on international level.
Do feel free to share your experiences in your Teke quest here on the blog. You are of course welcome to visit us in Florida any time!



3. Hege05/08/2006 04:57:15


Dear Jessica,
Thank you so much for your reply, I am so excited about this and cannot wait to get to know people with knowledge and make contacts! I realise there is a lot to learn, and it is not going to be like when I bought my previous horses! I have ridden english thoroughbreds and arab horses and absolutely adored them, but I have the impression that with the Tekes you are getting the best of "all horseworlds"! Not to mention their extraordinary beauty..

I will definitely take your advise and take my time. It will be fairly easy for me to check out Tekes in Sweden when I leave England later this year and I will certainly try to attend the bigger events. If I can convince my husband to come to USA with me I will visit you as well!! I am impressed by your work and professionalism, it is so important to be able to trust breeders.
I must admit I really like Pekhimli..in the photos she looks stunning, well educated and she has a very good expression in her eyes.

I have to say, it is hard to get any literature on the akhal-tekes, especially trustworthy literature it seems? I am currently trying to purchase the book "the turkmen horse in iran", is there any other literature around? I have to admit that at the moment I am searching the net all the time, for pictures, information, anything about these horses.
It's a bit of an obsession I guess, but hey, who can blame me?
Thank you so much for your time and help!

Kind regards,
Hege.



1. maria06/04/2006 16:33:44


Jessica,

Does the rubber cord (we call it bungie here) go behind the ears? I thought it should go from one stirrup to the bit, then over the poll and then down to the bit on the other side, then to the other stirrup. Am I wrong?



2. Jessica D.06/04/2006 22:36:36


This is like side reins...right?



3. Jessica 06/05/2006 09:50:46


There are no shoulds when it comes to the rubber band (I'm sorry Maria but bungie sounds to violent and scary to me ).
You can attach it in many different ways depending on what you want the horse to learn at that point. I have another version that I will add pictures of later. In this case I only want the horse to feel a light contact with the bit. I am not interested at all in artificially position the head of the horse. The goal with the different ways of attaching the rubber band is to make the horse engage the hindlegs in all gaits and prepare as well as strenghten itself for the rider. In this picture the rubber band does not go over the neck it is used exaclty as you would use reins.



4. Jessica 06/06/2006 09:07:09


Jessica D and Maria. We went to Barrington Hill last weekend. It was a really nice show and I got to see different hunter classes. I think that the hunter classes might really fit the Tekes, the way they move, their looks under rider. I saw many TBs there and they seemed to do good. I would love to find sports for Tekes that fits the Teke type and movements so that we do not have to remake the Teke into something it is not.
Jessica D, next time you are in Florida you must really pop by to try out some of our Tekes and tell us what you think about their hunter abilities. I also imagine that the training of the hunter performer differs from the training of the Continental training. In that case I will have to decide which way to go with my youngsters? Do you have any input on that? I will also discuss it with my rider, she has a good insight in both worlds. English and Continental. Maria are you training Mualim for English or Continental riding, what do you think are the biggest differences?



5. Jessica D.06/07/2006 12:39:04


Jessica,
Hunters like their horses to go long and low...a lower headset but on the bit...not like a dressage horse...their heads are too high and collected...they like a relaxed look to the horse...Basically when a judge is pinning a class, they are looking for the horse they would MOST like to ride in the traditional Hunt...(in the field going over fences....they don't really have jumps out in a field anymore but now they are done in an arena) Horses pin well on the flat by being on the bit and having the "daisy cutter" type trot....many TB's have this. Latly, many warmbloods have been entering the hunter world but the traditional TB still does well. They like a nice flowing stride at the canter as well. (not a lot of knee movement...flat knees).

As for jumping, they look for a horse that does not change it's pace throughout the course. It has a nice long stride that can get the required number of strides between lines...they usually have multiple lines set to test to see if the horse changes pace or not. They want a horse that not only has a nice way of going and gets flying changes if not lands on the leads, but they want a horse that jumps round with square and even knees in front.

I hope this description of what judges look for in hunters will help you figure things out. I believe that any horse can do hunters if trained well and has a relaxed way of going with nice movements.

I would really love to see your farm and horses and take pictures! My husband and I are both photographers and I have a passion for equine photography! I hope to soon...his grandmother lives down in Clearwater and is getting near to....well...she wants it to be over...she is 90+ years old and she basically wants to die. Well maybe when we go down there at that time, we will make a stop at your place for a visit. (yes I know it's sad, but best to make lemonade from lemons, right?) I also have family that still lives in the area...so we will definitly be down there at some point....who knows...maybe by that time I will be able to buy a horse (I already have an arab mix pony...but I need a horse for Hunters...Im too old to compete in the ponies!) and be looking at some of yours! ;)

P.S. - I recommend reading a book called "Hunt Seat Equitation" by George Morris. This book explains EVERYTHING about judging hunters and equitation as well as common faults that are seen and what to look for.



6. Maria06/21/2006 18:19:00


Jessica, please put another photo of the rubber string you use for training on the blog.



1. Blanca09/01/2005 08:12:26
Homepage: http://www.akhalteke.biz


Hello Jessica,

I'm happy to visit and write in this blog. I was missing so much the akhalteke.org list!

I hope this place will be the ideal one for opinions and exchange of experiences. Well done!



2. Jessica 09/01/2005 10:07:18


Thank you for the encouraging words Blanca!
Jessica



3. Severine09/02/2005 07:15:39


Thank you very much for your blog...
Do you think you will share again your akhalteke.net web site, which was so complete. I wish you do because I didn't find any web site full of informations as yours was....
Severine



4. Jessica09/02/2005 10:15:12


Thank YOU for the compliments, Todd and I had a great time building and maintaning akhalteke.net! The reason to why we created akhalteke.net was the lack of transparency within the breed associations at that point and foremostly the difficulties to communicate and get info from the mother stud book. Today the situation is different but we still see needs for improvements especially when it comes to transparency and the need for increased quality in the work performed by the mother stud book as well as the national associations. The plan is to work from our blogs as platforms and add more information to the blogs, it will be an interesting journey, I do appreciate tips and ideas but I cannot guarantee that they will be implemented.



1. Todd Keith05/20/2006 09:15:00
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/


Don't forget that if a horse is a "Rare Line" that the going price is even more... It doesn't matter that the rare line is rare for a reason or that the horse in question looks like a thoroughbred. It's RARE and worth much, much more!!



2. Leonid05/20/2006 12:38:27
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Rare, becourse not need to anybody. In any case it is good that breed are developing into different directions. Main, breed must be pure.
Dear Jessica, this all is problem ofcouse, but real problem that it is discussion between maximum fife persons. Nobody pro, nobody contra, indifference.



3. Jessica 05/20/2006 16:34:33


I agree, I do get quite a few private emails that more or less agrees with what is said here on the blog. But otherwise these issues seems to be of no or little interest to a broader Teke public.
It is also a risk to be critical to the establishment as they have the power to hurt your horses market value. And for many it is not worth the risk to open the mouth or send a message over the Internet, we do have hundreds of visitors to this blog per day so I'm sure the message is spread.
Maybe it is simply the fact that most people are please with todays' system and think everything is ok?



4. Leonid05/21/2006 00:13:47
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


So, expertise is power, in the case of TB, expertise is hippodrome, in the case of AT - dictatura of one person.



5. Jessica 05/21/2006 09:07:17


Information is power. For breeders, access to correct breed statistics is a powerful tool except for the breeder's instinct. If breeders cannot find reliable information/statistics about horses to combine it with their expertise and instinct, they have a higher risk to fail.
And if the breeders fail so will the breed.



6. Todd Keith05/21/2006 09:50:25
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/


You are right Leonid.
If this was run like a normal breed you could complain to your national breeders association. They could then pressure the international breeders association to pressure the stud book. Today the same person(s) control your national breeders association, the international breeders association and the stud book. There is no way to audit any information. You (in Russia) don't even get to see your own blood typing/DNA results!!!
One person decides who is purebred, who is good/bad, who goes into the stud book, who wins at shows, etc. Up until the 9th stud book all experts were included in the compilation of the stud book. Today the so called Mother of the Breed (self proclaimed) is in fact the Teke Bashi. I'm glad that we have DNA tests on all our horses. No one can ever dispute the pedigrees or question their origin.



7. Hege05/22/2006 09:17:21


After reading through the latest postings on your blog, I feel a little flat and pessimistic. I am trying to get to learn about this fantastic breed, and I am very grateful your web site and blog exist, but it is so worrying to see what problems breeders encounter. I am looking to buy an AkhalTeke horse some time in the near future, and so far I get the feeling that due to my current lack of knowledge and the corrupt system and grading problems and lies (!!) I am on thin ice. As a somewhat naive Norwegian, I do get the feeling I am easy to fool because I don't know where to get reliable information. I don't want to support breeders that aren't serious and I want to know that the money I invest are being spent wisely!!

I am glad you have highlighted this problem and I hope that in the nearest future someone manages to challenge this poor system, where information is held back and/or is WRONG! I seriously don't understand who benefits from this. As a true horselover and fan of the AkhalTeke horse I can only ask if there is any possibility in starting a new independent studbook and create a reliable, proper system for grading and give people an easily accessible source to the truth? I don't know how the politics work but surely if the current organisation isn't doing a proper job there must be a way of breaking away from them? Or am I being silly now, for thinking this is possible?

I am not willing to spend lots of moneys travelling around to see breeders that are timewasters and I wonder how I should approach this. By the looks of it I can spend bloody 5 years researching and still not know for sure..

I guess that's it for today...

Best regards from
frustrated AkhalTeke-owner-to-be...one day...:- :-



8. Leonid05/22/2006 10:16:33
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Dear Hege, all this questions, wich discuse in this blog, are not important absolutly. Expertise, judging are sport event only. Entrust to your eyes only. Entrust to your feeling of beauty and be proud of pure breed AT horse wich you bought. Important only one term - horse must be pure blood. In this way we are trust to Studbook. Mrs. Ryabova can not make null and void all her life. All this conversations advice column how we would like and why we can not do, like we count correctly.



9. Severine05/22/2006 11:30:12


Dear Hege,
I agree with Leonid.
I just can give you an advice : take time to find your AT horse. You might have breeder in Norway. Go and look at the horses, several times if necessary (it is always necessary).
And you have a lot of web site with photos of akhal tekes horses (Maak, AT associations, breeders,...). I know it is better to see them live, but, more you see photos and more you will have the sight developped, to see what an AT type is and what an AT good conformation is. You will see there are different kinds of akhal teke horses, and which one you prefer.
If you take the time, your eyes will see and appreciate more a type than another, you will learn more about pedigree,...
After, the problems with the MAAK, the stud book, Tatiana Riabova are problems for professionnal breeders. You can read, but it doesn't have to affect you if you want to buy an AT horse. Just verify that it is really an AT horse (MAAK passport), and it is ok.

Jessica and Todd made years before a very precious web site on AT, a kind of encyclopedia with recommandations for buyers, and explanations, ... I personnally would be so please if they could upload this website again... (message in a bottle )



10. Leonid05/22/2006 11:52:25
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


And ofcourse you need come in Russia into the most importent Studs with traditions. AT breeding of other World did not organize enough and nowhere you can not look so many and different horses, like in Russia. For example in Pyatigorsk hippodrome run more then 150 of young tekes.



11. Hege05/22/2006 12:02:25


Dear Leonid and Severine,

Thank you both for your comments and advice, I really appreciate it and I agree with you!

I realise that I need to educate myself and take my time, like you suggest..After all it should be an exciting process buying a horse - especially an AkhalTeke! I just need to emphasise that I definitely don't want to support a breeder that isn't serious. I want to know that the horse I buy is a healthy (with no defects), happy and well trained, I would like to believe many breeders can provide this. But I also want to know it's a "typical" AkhalTeke, when it comes to every aspect of the breed! I want the horse for the love of the breed as well as my best mate and companion
I think I can conclude with this - I will get there, and I will be very proud the day I own an AkhalTeke!

By the way, I love the sound of this AT website Severine mentioned, please Todd and Jessica; are there any chances you may open it again?

Best regards

Hege



12. Hege05/22/2006 12:06:36


Leonid,
Thank you, I would love to come to Russia and check out lots of gorgeous horses!

Jessica also advised me to go to the Moscow show in August!

Hege



13. Jessica D.05/23/2006 00:20:37


Well I have been a lurker on this blog for a bit. I have ultimately fallen in love with the AT breed and hope to be able to participate in the breed's promotion in the future. I have done Hunter/Jumpers for a long time and I love the sport and I hope to someday show AT's in the hunter world. I think with their wonderful movement and athletic ability and not to mention that they will stand out in a large hack class with their shine, they will prove to be successful. As I am fresh out of college, that's not in my ability at the moment.

I grew up in the Tampa, FL area and was sooo beside myself when I found out that you (Todd and Jessica) had an AT farm near me....and I had JUST moved to TN to live. I look forward to making a visit to your farm when I return to the area at some point. I can't wait to see one in real life!

Anyways, I just wanted to say that I was feeling the same as Hege and I am also glad this blog exhists because it helps to clear up a lot of confusion about the breed and it also allows for inexperienced AT people to ask questions and get some answers.



14. Jessica 05/23/2006 13:47:27


Hege. You will find your Teke, and I would say that you are among good people here on the blog that will help you out from our best of knowledge.



15. Jessica 05/23/2006 14:09:30


Jessica. Too bad you had to leave when we finally moved here. Give us a call whenever you are back in Tampa so that we can show you our horses.
You are not the only one who thinks that the Tekes can do good as hunters/jumpers. We have a few trainers hovering around our stud farm trying to snitch their favourite hunter Teke, we have to count them every night! They have already kidnapped our daughters and plan to turn them into hunter/jumper riders so we know they are serious.
I'm trying to educate myself about the hunter/jumper concept as it is new to me. So I'm glad you are here on my blog so that I can ask you beginners questions.
I saw some classes at HITS in Ocala and I will go to a show at quite a new barn very close to us, Barrington Hill, (moved here from Lutz not to long ago) on Saturday to see more of the hunters.
So far, I think the Tekes have the right movements, the long and low stride, they are also good looking horses and do have good jumps. Still a lot for me to find out, interesting and fun to learn new equestrian disciplines, that is one of the best thing about breeding Tekes, they can do so many disciplines! The challenge is to pick the right Teke for the right task and give them the best training. Fun, fun, fun



16. Heather Mahoney05/23/2006 15:13:24


Jessica D.:
Like you, I lurk on this blog at some point nearly everyday, though rarely post. Usually it seems more fitting to read and think and learn from the experience of those more familiar with the history and politics of the AT breed. My husband and I were thrilled when Todd and Jessica moved to Florida! You should definitely make the effort to see their animals when you are next in the area, as I assure you they are very worth the drive (the horses AND the breeders).

Hege:
I have simpathy for the frustrations you've described, as I find myself in much the same situation. It is disconcerting to have such a sincere interest in a breed only to find that you must always be careful of who to believe and have faith in. It is intimidating, but good, I think, that we ultimately take responsibility for educating ourselves. While I agree that we must rely much on ourselves and developing an "eye" for breed type, it is also important that our investment is not on a good looking animal that has genetic defects which may not be immediately apparent. This concerns me much when I think of an eventual purchase of my first Akhal-Teke. Are you considering attending the Moscow show? My husband and I are talking it over, and it would be interesting if there were other AT "first-timers" as well... just a thought.

Heather



17. Leonid05/24/2006 01:13:51
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


At 19th of August will be akhalteke show in the horse exebition "Equiros" in Moscow. Wellcome everybody!



18. Tabitha05/24/2006 03:50:48
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/tabithameijer/index.html


Dear Jessica D., Hege and Heather,

You wish experience from AT first timers? I was one once, until I "bumped" in to this little colt that had a personality that appealed to me.
You should just be very aware of what you want to use your Teke for. Just for companyonship and having a good time with your horse or to really do competitions (no matter what kind) or for breeding.
With the first two you only have to look at the personality, the horse's health and conformation and his movements. Just like with any other horse.
The latter however demands indeed a lot of knowledge and experience with the breed. If that's what you want, just keep lurking is my advice and go see as much AT's in real live and at pictures as Todd said and talk to as many breeders as possible.

Or you can buy 'your' Teke and learn the rest afterwards (I thought I already had learned very much about the breed only to find out that the "politics" of the studbook were even stranger as I had thougt).
So now I keep my wonderfull Teke just for the first two things and I keep lurking and learning for the insignificant chance that someday I might be able to become a breeder . And I can tell you... we are really happy together and with the fact we don't have to worry about the studbook like real breeders .

So I can assure you... if you ever buy an AT, you'll never regret it even not if the studbook thinks your Teke is crap (unless you've bought an unhealthy horse of course).
That's my experience.



19. Hege05/24/2006 05:02:43


Dear all,
so great to see all these postings and to know that I am not alone in a long winded quest for an AT horse!
Jessica D, when you make a visit to Todd and Jessica I am sure you will have a fantastic experience, I would love to read about it on this blog!!!! I bet an AT would be a brilliant hunter/jumper as well, I never even thought of that before - with their stamina and willpower I think an AT would be very successful. My impression is that they possess so many good qualities!

Heather, I would like to attend the Moscow show in August, it would be very good to share opinions, the whole experience and learn together with someone. I also agree with you, we need to know as much as possible so that we don't buy ourselves a horse with defects or other problems. Sometimes these things are hard to discover when you can't make many visits to a breeder. I have been burnt once, when I was fourteen and got my first horse, from Denmark. It taught me always to X-ray all four legs of the horse before deciding to buy it! He had calcifications (I think that is the english word for it) in his back legs.

Tabitha, thank you for your advice and letting us know how you experienced buying and owning and AT horse, I think it is a good start to know exactly what you want from the horse when buying it! Did you visit many breeders and where did you end up buying your heavenly horse? By the way, so exciting that you dream of one day breeding these lovely horses!!!!

Finally - I feel that I am in good and honest company on this blog, it is teaching me a lot already and I would be pretty ignorant without it.

Hege



20. Jessica D.05/24/2006 10:42:29


Did you say Barrington Hill, Jessica? If it's the same Barrington Hill that was formally in Lutz, I used to work for them as an assistant Barn manager a few years ago. Is it run by an Alicia Padro by any chance?? (If you want to know more about this farm send me an email) I wish I was still in the area...maybe I'd be able to help you more.



21. Jessica05/25/2006 15:01:48


Leonid. Will you be showing your horses at the Moscow Show on the 13-15th of August as well as at Equiros on August 19?
For Teke lovers coming from far away like for example Florida it could be worth visiting both events I guess. Maybe a visit to your stud farm in between the two shows would be doable.
We're making plans for Todd to come to Moscow to attend the shows as I am not approved for the US stud book yet, this, in spite of the fact that I have produced two US citizens (I wonder what grades I will get?). Not being approved means that I cannot leave the US at this point.



22. Jessica 05/25/2006 15:06:21


Jessica D. Yes we are talking about the same Barrington Hill. The horse world is small isn't it! We will check it out during their last spring show event on Saturday. There will be several hunter/jumper classes to for us to study. Interesting.



23. Leonid05/26/2006 02:24:23
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


At the beginning will equiros and then 25-27 will Miting. Ofcourse somebody can visit our Stud.



1. Leonid06/13/2006 11:20:55
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


It is good that you are o'key.



1. Heather12/14/2006 15:18:47


Does anyone know if Amnesty International is at all involved in this case? It just seems like exactly the sort of human rights issue their Urgent Action initiative is for. If not please let me know, so that I or someone more acquainted with the situation can write to the International Secretariate of AI, and see that this gets the necessary attention. I know that's all easier said than done, but every little bit helps, yes?
Heather



2. Todd Keith12/14/2006 15:27:52
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com


Heather,
I contacted Amnesty when it happened. They would not help as the case wasn't "spectacular" enough. They could only help with high profile cases where they could get alot of media coverage and this was not one of them. I also contacted Human Rights Watch who told me roughly the same story....



3. Jessica D.12/14/2006 16:29:53


Would there be a way for "us"....the collective Teke enthusiasts....to make it high profile? Any way to get the story out somehow? Maybe call some of the horse magazines? (was just thinking that if there was a way to make it more high profile than it is to the agencies that can help....we might be able to get them to help?)



4. Jessica D.12/14/2006 16:37:04


I just now thought maybe if you posted the story on Chronicle of the Horse msg boards? (there are a lot of people there)....maybe someone there knows someone who knows someone who might be able to help? The posters there can be quite a force at times...many work collectively to get legislature passed (the horse protection/ban against horse slaughter in the US)...and they also work to get horses adopted out of kill pens ALL THE TIME. (just some examples)...and I know they had worked to keep certain individuals charged with killing horses for money (insurrance) from getting to be reinstated into the horse industry also...

I dunno....was just an idea....it would get the word out there at least!

Here is a link to the site if you're interested.
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/index.php



5. Jessica12/14/2006 16:54:58


This is a very dangerous and difficult situation for Geldy and his family as Turkmenistan is under total dictatorship. At this point we do not know if the efforts made from the west to create attention has improved or worsened the situation for Geldy. It is also difficult to get accurate and reliable information on what is really happening in Geldy's case. It is one thing to work in a democracy for changes than working for changes in a totalitarian dictature, there you risk the life of yourself, your family and friends if you fail.



6. Hans-Jurg Buss12/14/2006 18:46:37


What exactly is Geldy Kiarizow officially accused and condemned for? And what is the real hidden agenda?



7. Heather12/15/2006 08:06:24


I see. So the major human rights agencies are all about helping so long as there is a good photo spread for their monthly subscriber magazine in it? That's vastly disappointing. But then as Jessica said, you can't even know if the attention would harm or help the situation. As much as I slam the US's current administration and their embarrassing domestic and international policy, situations like this do make you very grateful for freedom of speech.
I checked the AI website. They currently have TWO other "Urgent Action" requests relating to unfair arrests in Turkmenistan. I really did not know very much about the country before my interest in AT's, but they seem to be making a habit of this, yes?
Heather



8. Todd Keith12/15/2006 08:26:23
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com


More reading here:
http://www.gundogar.org/?022000000000000000011000000



9. Jessica12/15/2006 08:30:09


Geldy was accused for stealing state funds and property during his time as Executive Director for Turkmen Atlary. This is the normal destiny for all ministers and directors under the President of Turkmenistan. At any time you might get accused for failures and you will be officially removed from your post on TV, where you also are being humiliated by crying and drugged having to admit to everything you are accused of. It sounds surreal but I saw this happen myself on Turkmen TV when I was there. Somehow though, you never think this will happen to your friends.
There is no hidden agenda only the paranoia of a dictator.



10. Hans-Jurg Buss12/15/2006 09:18:54


In another thread regarding MAAK/VNIIK I have learned that this very pleasant person Mr. Niyazow is President of MAAK, the international AT breeders association. So I think that before asking AI all members of MAAK should first take action within this organization. As I explained in that thread: I am not member of MAAK and will never enter into an organization which accepts such a man as president. And as long as this is not questioned by members of MAAK, the breed will continue to have a "credibility problem" with non AT horse people.



11. Jessica12/15/2006 10:20:45


Excellent point Hans-Jürg.



12. maria12/15/2006 14:01:42


Where do Yahoo groups get their info from??? I thought they are in touch with the family. It ought to be stopped if the information they are posting is THAT far from reality.



13. Darya12/15/2006 14:45:26
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


Makes me wonder sometimes... It is as if someone is trying to make some "noise" now and again, for a cause...



14. Jessica12/15/2006 15:34:16


It was horrible to read the message and wait for confirmation of the situation, luckily we could quickly thanks to friends of the family verify that the information published on the Yahoo list was false.
I think it is cruel and unethical to publish statements about someones death without having checked and double checked facts.



15. Jessica 12/15/2006 15:39:30


On the other hand, the Yahoo list is mostly fiction and seldom facts so one should always double check statements from that list.



16. Darya12/15/2006 15:55:51
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


I do agree it is cruel and unethical to do so, even if there is a "good" cause behind it.



17. Hans-Jurg Buss12/15/2006 18:39:26


Question to all MAAK members following this blog: Why don't you take initiative to throw out this person Niyazow from your organization? Why do you accept this situation? I do not understand.



18. shael12/16/2006 00:42:51
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


Dear Hans-Jurg Buss, forget about MAAK. This organization das not work during 10 years. Niyazov das not know that he is Prezident of MAAK. Maak had three conferences by this time, and Niyazov was prezident by suggestion of Gheldy Kyarizov only with our laugh. You are very naive man. MAAK was fiction from the moment when Gheldy pressed us for Niyazov presidention.
By the way, russian breeders stoped any connection with Turkmenia (only privet) from that moment. But many forein amouters vizited this terrible regime on the next conferences when Gheldy was arrested.



19. Blanca12/16/2006 05:07:47


It■s very sad to have the country of the breed lost for the modern breeding plans...some of the best lines or individuals without proper registration while the build impressive golden hippodromes outside Ashgabat...



1. Carolyn03/20/2007 09:58:00


Hmm, well that does look interesting. This must be the book you mentioned to me earlier. I will have to pick up a copy as soon as it is released.
It is nice to see ancient cavalry attracting so much attention these days (and obviously the Teke in connection with that!)



2. Jessica03/20/2007 10:06:39


Carloyn, I knew you would be interested! I have also been thinking about asking you how you found the link to Tekes in you study of the Greek horses and Herodotos and how you view the type of horses used in Greece compared to the modern Teke.



3. Heather03/20/2007 11:08:37


Carolyn,
Not too much into your thesis topic I hope, but the book looks interesting! Are you planning to publish your thesis work???? Keep us informed!
Heather



4. Carolyn03/20/2007 13:50:12


Yes hopefully the book will not cover everything! But it seems like he wants to cover quite a bit of time, so it looks to be a good overview/summary type thing. I'm sure the bibliography will be useful.
I am hoping to publish some work soon; am considering a few different options. I will definitely keep you informed about such things.
I'm not entirely sure how I came across the Teke. I think I was just flipping through some books on horse breeds when I came across it and some Greek ponies, realizing that they looked an awful lot like images in Greek/Scythian/Near Eastern art. I am actually translating book 4 of Herodotus right now, so it will be interesting to see what the Greek says about the horses.
It seems to me that, for the most part, the modern Teke is quite similar to the ancient types. I don't know about personality as I have never had the pleasure of meeting a Teke in person, but conformationally they are exact images of each other. And this is carried across a number of cultures: Assyrian, Greek, Scythian etc. It drives me absolutely crazy when people say that the horses depicted in ancient art must have been idealized, that they didn't really look like that (mostly along the lines of 'they couldn't have been that short') I have ridden native Greek ponies in Greece and they definitely suit their terrain. And, looking at the build of the Teke and other breeds you start to understand how they were used in ancient cavalries etc. As you can tell, I love what I am doing!



1. Jessica D.05/09/2007 14:58:56


I totally agree with you about this. I was at the KHP this past weekend to watch a client I am doing some photography for compete in a Gypsy Vanner show that was going on (That's what they breed). I went to watch the Parade of Breeds and they had a Teke mare there. When it was over and people were allowed to come over to pet the horses and ask questions etc. I couldnt help but over-hear a lady make a comment about the mare being heavier than other Tekes (the mare was not fat by any means but just fit and nice looking)....I guess she just had this idea that Tekes are usually skinny looking and are supposed to be that way...and this goes along with the "public opinion" of outsiders to the breed. If all they see is thin, poorly made horses, then this is what they think Tekes are.

I was also having a discussion with someone awhile back about what breeds we like best. I mentioned the Teke, and they responded that they dont like them bc they all look deformed to her. Of course this would be the opinion of someone who has only been presented with mediocre horses.

Pics of the Teke mare at the KHP this weekend:
http://drakephotos.dotphoto.com/CPViewAlbum.asp?AID=4481278&IID=156472699&Page=2



2. Jessica05/09/2007 15:27:34


What wrong has the Tekes done to Kentucky Horse Park, why this punishment??!! I might ask.
I have seen anoother picture of a Teke they used to have there on display, I do not know if it is the same horse but the picture I saw several years ago was of an obese, coarse horse that totally lacked elegance or nobility.
This horse is not balanced and actually look painful to ride, she is to heavy on her front legs, I saw some other Tekes like that also when I went to the breed parade last September.
Bad fault in the breed, they should be up and light in the front.
Easy to ride in a light, balanced form.
That's so amazing in Tekes like Azan with a long and strong back, he elevates his front in the most impressive way when he moves.
Everyone should see this stallion in action. Amazing.
Back to KHP, why does the rider look like a Swedish Easter Witch?
If this was my first impression of the breed I would not bother to learn how to spell the name!
Shame on KHP! This is the oldest noble breed in the world, do not treat it like trash.





3. Jessica D.05/09/2007 15:40:51


I think the rider is supposed to look like she is from china. I would prefer to see the horse dressed in more traditional Turkmene attire... but who am I?



4. Jessica05/09/2007 15:52:46


Well, now KHP has offended China to! The Chinese dress beautifully, not like a kid that has ventured in grandma's wardrobe! However, I cannot still understand why the have a Chinese theme with the Teke.
I ask myself, what is KHP? I am disappointed in their lack of quality and accuracy when they present horse breeds and people from other cultures.
Thank you for sharing this experience Jessica!



5. Jessica D.05/09/2007 15:56:46


lol...no problem! ;)

Off the topic...but any info on what happend to Pieter? I visited their website (his owners) and it appears he has died? I am really sad if that is true....I rather liked him.



6. Jessica05/09/2007 16:08:40


Anne-Marie Rasch sent a message a few weeks ago on this blog that Pieter had died, she didn't tell us how he died though. Sad news, really.
No mares to cover tonight, in bad pain since training the Hanoverian last night, now I have to trim one of our standard poodles. He name is Bumble Bee and she should have been trimmed several weeks ago.
Many hours work ahead....Tekes are better!



7. Kerri-Jo Stewart05/09/2007 21:54:31
Homepage: http://Akhal-Teke.ca


Well, some of us try to put weight on these horses, lol!!

Darginka is finally in a big pasture full of grass and hopefully that will do the trick. I put up some photos of her new home. There was so much grass we had to mow parts down for the horses!

Now just for both of us to get in shape!!



8. Heather05/10/2007 10:16:55


Jessica D.,
If you don't mind me asking, what is the name of the Gypsy Vanner breeder? I wouldn't mind looking at their website if they have one. My mother is a vanner fan (she's Sicilian-Romani), but sometimes I have difficulty finding the build I like best in those heavier horses here in the states.

Jessica,
You crack me up, that's why I love this blog! But you are also right - rather strange to show a Teke with a Chinese-influenced costumed rider... You must wonder if this organization - which of course is HUGE in the US - has ever even seen a real quality Teke to be portraying them in such a way. But who knows... maybe the Gypsy vanners were being ridden by dirty shoeless unkempt children that galloped around and stole things from the crowd...



9. ANNE-MARIE05/10/2007 10:41:09
Homepage: http://FREEDOMRUNFARM.COM


I spoke with Pieters owner last week when I was driving to Georgia. Just now catching up on my Jessica blog reading.

Pieter was in his stall an hour before dinner happy and healthy, when they came back an hour later to feed him he was dead in the stall. Very sad, he was very loved by his owners and he was a true joy to be around. Good thing is that he probably did not suffer and went quickly.



10. Jessica D.05/10/2007 14:09:12


Anne-Marie - that is SO wierd! Do they know why he died??? Very Freakish!

Heather, the breeders I am working for do not currently have a website yet. My Husband is actually going to put one together for them. They have a couple of imported mares and a 2yr old colt...and a gelding who was also imported -though not by them. The 2 mares had foals by now so I will be taking pictures of them. I think they intend to sell the foals...though I am not certain.

Here are the Gypsy pictures I took while there. I wasnt there for the whole show so I only did a few in-hand classes.
http://drakephotos.dotphoto.com/CPViewAlbum.asp?AID=4483261&IID=156514307&Page=1

This is the 2yr old colt that is owned by the people I am working for.
http://drakephotos.dotphoto.com/CPViewAlbum.asp?AID=4483261&IID=156534505&Page=1
They got 3rd place in their class.



11. Heather05/10/2007 15:05:26


Jessica D.,
Thanks for sharing such great pics! What a fun job that must be. What camera body do you use, if you don't mind me asking? The first pic especially was the body type I like in vanner/drums. That nice strong long face, with almost an Andalusian-type look. Very nice! Thanks for posting the links.



12. Jessica D.05/10/2007 16:06:12


Heather, thanks! I use a Canon. I studied photography in college...although it wasn't my major. I LOVE the darkroom and would shoot film if it were feesible....BUT it is just not economical to use film for photography now-a-days....unless you only do fine art. I am doing pet photography too...which is WAY fun! Doing an agility event this weenend and Im really looking forward to it.

I will let you know their website once it is up for the Gypsies.



13. Vile05/29/2007 05:44:55


Hi Jessica,

I wholeheartedly agree with you on underfeeding. I just bought my first Teke and the "breeder" underfed him which shows on his hooves, thank God most of his life he was raised somewhere else not with his breeder but recently he got back there for 2 months and it already showed on his hooves. The vet confirmed that he didn't suffer any permanent damage but he needs to gain weight. I heard that his mother is so weak that she can barely walk. The "breeder" also shortened his beautiful tail. I'm so pissed when I see that people like this guy dare to claim to be a breeder.



1. Leonid03/01/2006 05:39:35
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


I will create Book of Asyl-Teke, and horses from this Book will have the highest marketing, like egiptian arabs between arabs. That will be pure, natural horses. I can not fight ageinst General Stud Book, but I can create Creame of this Stud Book.
It is illusion to get possibility to control General Stud Book.



2. Todd Keith03/01/2006 13:57:06
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com


I've never been against semen as long as it is regulated. It should be limited to sires of a certain type (above 8.0 for example) that have been proven to be improvers of the breed. Semen can help the overall population by increasing the type. BUT, if not regulated it could be the death of the typical Akhal-Teke. If people select a sire because of semen quality and not breeding quality it could further the loss of type and quality within the breed. As an individual breeder, I would not sell semen from any of our sires, only the sons. I would, however, like to use, for example, Gaigizis on Rosanna which is not possible today (piro, import/export problems, etc) but could be if he was collected. If quality sires were available on semen it could help the breed, but of course, irresponsible breeding with semen could do the opposite.
Cloning should be banned, period!
Embryo transfer should be highly regulated to broodmares of extreme value (like Pampa). No broodmare in the west is valuable enough to even be considered today...

Todd



3. Petra03/01/2006 14:24:00
Homepage: http://www.mujweb.cz/www/akhalteke


100% agree with you, Todd.
As I know, owner of Gaigysyz, Ms. Shabashova plans to make frozen semen of him and also of Tokhtamysh.



4. Allegra Steck03/01/2006 14:46:06


Jessica,

The ATAA already has regulations in place regarding embryo transfer. This was done several years ago.

The general consensus on this blog seems to be that ET is an easy, casual, snap-your-fingers sort of process, and an inevitable eventuality for breeders everywhere. This is a highly misinformed notion. ET is expensive, time-consuming, frustrating and still at only 50% success rate, which is unlikely to change any time soon, based on the intricacies of the female equine reproductive sysytem. To have the process done at clinics or centers offering it, the base price begins at around $7000USD, with no gauarntee of a live foal. This is really not in the budget of the average breeder, especially if that particular mare was able to carry her own foal to term. ET is an option to be selected when a breeding-quality mare is able to conceive, but unable to carry, her own foal, usually due to physical trauma to her uterus or other physical injuries to the mare which would make the weight of a pregnancy too difficult. It is not for the use of super-breeding, or creating mutiple foals from one mare, at least not ethically. Fortunately, for the above described reasons, ET is self-limiting in it's own way.

Todd, I have to disagree with you on your opinion that no mare in the West is worth having ET done. Senova is the #2-graded mare in the US, with excellent type and conformation, who also competed quite successfully at high national levels in sport, in open competition against all other breeds. Exactly the type of purebred mare who should be reproducing. It was no fault of her own that her uterus was compromised in her first pregnancy.

Allegra



5. Jessica 03/01/2006 18:19:35


Allegra. The ATAA cannot dictate the rules for the mother stud book. ATAA is one of two associations in the USA that is optional for breeders/owners to register with. I can do whatever I want in the USA and will, without asking ATAA if I am allowed or not, I will have to follow the rules of the mother stud book though, as they are the only body today that can register and issue valid papers for pure bred Akhal-Tekes. Obviously the mare you took eggs from is very valuable for you (breeding value unknown though)and you are allowed to register an embryo transfer foal from her by the mother stud book. In can only wish you good luck in your work with her.



6. Jessica 03/01/2006 18:22:56


Todd. I did not know we had discussed using Gaygisiz for Rosanna. I do not agree that he would be the best choice for her.
I'd better stay home more instead of spending time on horse farms in Ocala.



7. Jessica 03/01/2006 18:26:14


Alllegra. I do not know where you read that the embryo transfer process or anything else involving a breeding"snap-your-finger" process on this blog. However, I visited a stud farm yesterday that had really good success with embroy transfer working with a vet that has a 100% live foal guarantee for his embryo transfers. You might want to contact him if you have problems in Virginia.



8. Jessica 03/01/2006 18:29:24


Allegra. I forgot, who will be the improver to Senova, I guess you have selected a stallion that is better or equal to her as a sire for the foal considering the costs and risks involved in the embryo transfer. Finding a good stallion for her in the US defenitely cannot have been a snap-your-finger process.



9. Leonid03/02/2006 02:35:53
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Possible you forgot about effect of ersatz mother for foal. Possible it is not importent for halfbred breeds, but akhalteke horses are pure. In any case ET foals are ersatz too. You can use them for everything, but not for pure breeding.
5000 years this horses are breeding by natural rules for best impressure of man about horses. Ask yourself: "Who are you? Why do you breed this horses? You must know full responsibility of your activity. Today we have one direction, horses go from east to west. In the case of using of biotecnology it will be only one way, and your horses will be horses, but not akhalteke. Why? Becourse most importent breeders don't want this. I suggest to be together and to respect each other. Akhalteke breeding is very expencive pleasure. Cheapist way not already right way.
I am doubt, that this conversation coud be in the case of thoroughbred breed.



10. Leonid03/02/2006 05:14:32
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Todd, we must have only one reason to use somebody Sire into the breeding. He must be pure and natural. And only two valuers we can get. One and main is oppinion of breeder himself, another is money of customer. This is objective oppinion. When you send horse to expo, you have to submit to the valuation of judges and you do it voluntarily. Other terms are fetters for breeder.



11. Allegra Steck03/02/2006 10:41:17


Leonid,

The surrogate dam of an embryo transfer foal has no effect on it's genetic makeup whatsoever. This is proven scientific fact.

Allegra



12. Leonid03/02/2006 11:41:25
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


I know, that it is not proved fact. More better can say about it Klimuk and Ryabova too. Why this ET not use in thoroughbred, where mares can cost tens millions. Becourse it is not proved fact.



13. Jessica 03/02/2006 14:46:18


The surrogate dam of the embryo transfer foal will effect the foal, it might not be the genetical make-up but other factors affect a horse as well.
I think the decision on how and when to use ET must be analysed from several aspects. Is the goal for the breeder to only maintain or multiply a genetical package that is supposedly superior to others or is it to produce a horse with certain sought after features from a certain breed like temperament and performance ability.
Experience and studies mostly in sport horse breeds show that the choice of surrogate mother certainly will affect the foal's future performance abilities due to the mentality of the mare.
One also very interesting aspect is the nutritional value of the mares milk, many studies from the 90's show that the fat, protein and other vital components in the mares milk varies quite a lot between horse breeds.
When breeding quality horses I think you must certainly investigate carefully all aspects of your selections and decisions.
Spontaneously from the little I know about ET and horse breeding I think the surrogate mother should be selected very carefully and be from the same breed as the donor. This is probably more important in breeds with many unique traits like the Tekes. In Allegra's case though when she uses ET to take offpsring from an in her mind exceptional performer, the FEI performance abilities could be enhanced by using a warmblood as a surrogate mother.



14. Leonid03/03/2006 00:40:58
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


It is normal for industrial crossing, but not for pure breeding.



15. Allegra Steck03/03/2006 16:04:50


Jessica,

I am very curious about this veterinarian who offers a 100% live foal guarantee on ET foals. Is this guarantee dependent upon the age and uterine condition of the donor mare or is it unconditional regardless ? Does he maintain his recipient herd or is that the owner's responsibility as well and does that enter into the end result ? This is the first guarantee I have ever heard of.

Allegra



16. Alexandr03/26/2006 07:30:07


Statute of biotechnologies in Teke breed is not developed by VNIK. Even though Ryabova thinks that question is competence of Institute. It can lead and even lead to many misunderstandings. For ex. foal of surrogate mother that is not belong to pure akhalteke breed, will (foal)never be admited trueborn teke. Ryabova understand this fact very good. So we can understand disappointment of people who risked their money and in fact received unadmitted foals.



1. emily kuhn01/19/2006 00:38:06
Homepage: http://none


Hello, I've done extensive research on the Akhal-Teke breed for about a year now and think it's about time I contacted an actual breeder to learn more. It seems as if some of these horses have calm and thoughtful horsanalities and other's are alike an Arab! Is the average Akhal-Teke especially claustrophobic or flighty(which I really want to avoid)? What kind of relationship do they require from a person? Out of curiosity do all or most Akhal-Tekes have an amount of Thoroughbred blood in them or are they pure Turkmene horse? I've been training Mustangs and Arabs through natural horsemanship and it seems to be working out well for them and I. I'm looking for an athletic mare who has a lot of intelligence and sensitivity. A horse more human oriented and will really enjoy her time with me. I don't mind a high spirited or playful horse so long they are not worried or afraid. I suspect the Akhal-Tekes may have the better traits of Thoroughbreds and Arabians. Have a very good New Year! -Ash and Emily Boldt



2. Tabitha01/20/2006 06:35:47
Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/tabithameijer/index.html


Jessica,

Your comments are certainly food for thought... one can register the stallions on defects but what still often is missing are the defects of mares used for breeding (even here in The Netherlands). Since there are more and more signs that mares have a significant genetical influence on their off spring it would be wise to test them on those things too.

It would be an idea if MAAK would consider not only grading horses but also require certain medical tests on the AT Stallions and Mares before they are allowed to be used for breeding.

But well... that probably is wishfull thinking.



3. Jessica 01/20/2006 08:39:52


The defects in stallions should be of more concern to the breed management as the stallions often affect the population more as they normally get more offspring than a mare. Most registries today record defects in stallions or deny breeding rights for animals might pose a risk to the population by spreading a defect. Of course the only way to really find out if a stallion is spreding a defect is if all mare owners report defects in offspring but this will never happen in any breed!
For the Akhal-Teke breeder/buyer it is important to collect as much fact as possible about relatives when horses are evaluated for breeding or purchasing.
For the stallion owner it is also very important to check the mares that the stallion are bred to, if you offer your stallion to external mare owners you must check the mares carefully. Otherwise it might be the stallion that is blamed for a defect that actually came from the mare.
We have during the years been approached by a few mare owners that have wanted to breed their defect mares to our stallions.
We have of course avoided to breed to mares with known defects as well as bred only to outside mares that have a performance record.
Note that we do not offer our stallions on AI. Selling semen from your stallion is also loosing control a little bit over who you breed to, especially in our breed as there are no reporting whatsoever of defects. When the mares will have to come to you, you know what to breed and not to breed.
More food for thought in the AI discussion.



4. Leonid01/21/2006 02:28:50
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Breeding of akhalteke horses is "fatomano" production. And understanding of deffects is very individual. The aim of breeder to create ART and he can use any genetic material for this way.
In any case, if you bought horse with deffects, why you did it?



1. Heather Mahoney02/15/2007 08:35:42


Jessica, Leonid and Laurence,
Thanks so much for the history lesson. I really have such a passion for history and find it fascinating. Your info is much appreciated. I made a point of asking my very elderly Sicilian grandmother about the Caltanissetta - Nissa connection. According to her, native Nisseni (from Sicily) claim that the very ancient city of what is now called Caltanissetta had some manner of association with the ancient Nissa we have been speaking of hear (especially around the time of the famed treaty). She did not know how unfortunately, but Sicily has belonged to the Greeks, the Spartans, the Romans, the Moors, the Spaniards, etc. so no telling. Thanks again for the insight.



2. Heather02/15/2007 12:54:55


A-HA! I think I have found it, and will share briefly, just for the sake of knowledge...
An ancient fort in Sicily was captured by the Saracens in 829AD from the Carthaginians, who renamed it Qalat al Nissa which means "Fort of Women" in Arabic. That name was phonetically Italianized to "Caltanissetta" in 1086 when it was captured by the Normans. The connection to the AT's Nissa, is that Caltanissetta was later ruled (1500-1700's)) by the de Sayd's of the deposed Ottoman heir, Sultan Mehmed III's son, Djem, who fled to Sicily after being beaten out for the throne by his younger brother Osman, and he officially called the city "Nissa" for many years. I love history. Anyhow, thanks for tolerating my tangent!
Heather



3. Jessica02/16/2007 10:57:41


Heather, thanks for the history update, maybe we can conclude that like every road leads to Rome, every good horse trace back to the Tekes!



4. Laurence Bougault02/16/2007 13:03:10
Homepage: http://www.cheval-akhal-teke.com


Do you know why they call it "Fort of women"? i still searching correct informations about that amazon legend in Turkmenistan. A friend of mine said that it was till know a tribe in Turkmenistan were women have the reputation to be like men. If you love history, you could maybe find something about it...
Laura



5. Heather 02/19/2007 09:35:46


Laura,
Sorry it took me a bit to respond. As for your first question, no I don't know where Qalat al Nissa came from, but I know the previous name was Castra Nicia after a Cartheginian general, so maybe they were just keeping the same "sound"??? Who knows.

As for the Turkish female tribe, all I've found so far is this interesting website refered to me by a Turkish travel guide and historian: http://www.allaboutturkey.com/amazon.htm. It has some very interesting information that I think is relevant to your search. I'll dig around though and see if I find anything else. If you want to send me your email, I can forward any info to that address.
Hope that helps,
Heather



6. Chris02/21/2007 08:52:07


Secrets of the Dead, a PBS special on 'Amazon Warrior Women' follows the quixotic journey of two researchers to find evidence supporting their theories. Interesting! Not sure how authentic, but "published" and "broadcast" you know!



7. Jessica02/21/2007 09:48:02


Chris, welcome to the blog. I noticed that you also commented on another for me very interesting topic, I will create a new thread on that subject later.
Greek historians like Herodotos claimed that the Scythians and Parthians allowed women to participate in war, the women who did, amputated their right breast in order to be as good mounted archers as the men, from there stems the myth about the amazons, in Turkmenistan there are statues of women missing their right breast from that period of time.
I guess all of us women riding Tekes are more amazons that women riding other breeds of horses with our without the right breast.



8. Heather02/21/2007 10:31:00


I have heard that legend before, and always wondered about it... I've done archery my whole life, and never notice a breast in the way! Of course, I've also never tried to hit a target from a moving Teke!

Laura - this also occured to me in relation to your topic, and I'm only aware as I come from a very celtic family on my father's side. The Gaulish Celts, which Herodotus and Julius Caesar wrote extensively about, had a long tradition of women participating in battle. There are numerous historians that have described the Celtic "empire" as stretching into Turkey and beyond at its pinnacle, which has been evidenced by many archaeological studies. They were a tribal and partially nomadic society, much like the Turks, so the similarities are not surprising. Pliny the Elder wrote that the Sarmatian confederacy (associated with the Amazon women) stretched up to the Danube, which is the heart of the Gaulish Germanic tribes and their female warriors. So no matter who influenced whom, there is likely a cultural connection between these two groups that would be interesting to explore.

Now if there was an excuse to change the thread towards the literary connections between the two, you could all contribute to my graduate research proposal!



9. Carolyn Willekes02/25/2007 19:45:44


Hi there, I am a PhD student in Classics at the University of Calgary. I just finished a Master's degree on the Greek Warhorse and its training, my PhD is about the nomadic horse cultures of the Near East and Central Asia. I am particularly interested in the horses of antiquity: ancient breeds etc. The Teke obviously plays into this. In Scythian art I have noticed a type of horse that seems to share distinct features with the Teke, also the famous bronze horse from Artemision, now in Athens, strikes me as being a bit Tekey. I would really appreciate any info you might be able to offer about the history of the Teke- books etc I can look up.
In the last year I have begun practicing mounted archery as part of my research and women can definitely shoot from horseback!



10. Blanca02/26/2007 11:42:57


Hi Carolyn

Welcome to the blog!

As far as I'm aware, the scarce literature on the subject is in Russian.

In Englishm you might find bits and pieces scattered in different websites. A good one, by the way is L. Firouz's: www.turanianhorse.com

One of the persons I know myself more knowledgeable on tekes and their history is A. Klimuk.

Maybe the others can better inform you...



11. Jessica02/26/2007 15:48:27


Whenever you feel like trying mounted archery from the original war horse of Central Asia you are welcome to try one of our famous steeds! Your research is so interesting, were can I find your work on the Greek warhorse?
I will start a new thread with a list of literature I can recommend for you to get started with. I was actually contacted today by an author who soon will release a very interesting book very close to your subject, more about this later when I know the publishing date of the book.



12. Carolyn02/26/2007 18:25:16


Hi,

Thanks so much for your assistance. The list of literature looks to be useful, I will add anything that I come across in my research. Please do let me know about this new book, there is not nearly enough written on the subject so new contributions are always exciting (as long as it isn't the same topic as my dissertation!)
My Master's thesis has not been published yet, though I am hoping to get sections of it out soon. I could probably send you an electronic copy (pdf) if you are interested.
I would love to try archery from a Teke. It is a dream of mine to own one of these wonderful horses some day (or more than one!) I was completely taken with them when I first came across the breed in my research a few years ago.



1. Todd Keith01/03/2007 12:22:43
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/


Strange, there are several class 2 horses in studbook 10.....
Are these the requirements to be listed as a sire/broodmare or just to be registered as a foal (i.e. purebred akhal-teke)??



2. Jessica01/03/2007 13:01:51


I have not checked the official requirements for registering a Teke yet.
I think this is the biggest crisis in this breed ever, one person has mananged to, take the complete control of the studbook, purebred horses can now be denied entry because they do not fulfil "breed requirements".
The second scary sentence in the citation is the use of who checks the DNA-typing it is "MAAK (VNIIK)" what the heck is MAAK (VNIIK).



3. Jessica 01/03/2007 13:05:40


The question is also, can a class II horse ever produce for the studbook? I wonder about Tabitha's stallion that we earlier talked about on this blog that was graded class II. Tabitha, did you decide to geld him because you were told that he could not be inscribed into the studbook?



4. Todd Keith01/03/2007 13:55:30
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/


Maria,
Can you check the translation?
The original is here: http://www.maak.ru/plembook_doc.php3
English version here: http://www.maakcenter.org/ENG/sbreg.html
For terminology's sake, registration should be when a foal is registered with the studbook, inscription should be when a breeding animal is given a studbook number in a published studbook.
What happens if one tries to register a foal where one (or both) of the parents has been denied inscription in the studbook??
Does this imply that sires/dams MUST be inscribed into the studbook or registered with the studbook? This has major implications on what is considered a purebred.

Todd



5. Maria01/03/2007 15:47:33


Yeah, the translation looks ok. Are these rules recent? So the proven descendant of parents in the previous studbook is not automatically inscribed... This makes it the most closed studbook in the world!



6. Jessica01/03/2007 16:17:56


This is normal procedures for warmblood breeds, almost any horse of a warmblood breed, Arabians and Thoroughbreds can register with a warmblood studbook, Akhal-Tekes are for example registered with the ASVH but will not be inscribed into their studbook as the AT studbook is not approved by ASVH.
For warmbloods to be inscribed into the studbook, they will have to fulfil certain pedigree criteria as well as conformational, type and soundness criteria. For example a Swedish Warmblood mare below 15.1 hands will not be inscribed into the studbook.
For pure blooded horses like TB's Arabians the pedigree verification is the only criteria. I have not until today realised that the Teke breed used the warmblood system for entering horses into the studbook.
The breed will by this rule probably without doubt be classified as a warmblood breed, as it is in most western literature.
The next step after this rule is to allow for improvers from other studbooks, the rule of "typing" into the studbook will certainly allow for this step. So Maria, I think the opposite will happen unless this rule is challenged, the Teke studbook will be open and the Teke breed will belong to the lowest ranked warmblood studbook in the world. Absent cannot help us now.



7. Maria01/03/2007 17:46:05


Or do you see a splinter studbook developing? It is also entirely possible, of course, that these rules are just paper.



8. Jessica 01/03/2007 18:50:30


Maria, I do not understand splinter studbook.
Paper rules are dangerous as they can be applied at any time and as they are published and no one complains they will sooner or later become a reality. We really need to work on the transparency towards breeder and owners.



9. Tabitha01/04/2007 06:39:15


Wow.. so my horse is not a purebred anymore?????
I do not see it in that text you quote. Would like to see it on black and white since his papers issued by MAAK when he was a foal say he's pure.

About the reason to geld him.
I already had plans to geld (after having collected his semen) him for the safety off other people (though he had become another horse in the months between my decision and the actual gelding) because he was biting everyone but me and I was the only one he complied to. The stable people couldn't handle a traumatized young stallion (as result of injury and being locked up for about half a year to heal) and he learned from them that he could handle people instead of the other way round.

I was expecting a class I grading and I did feel like MAAK valued him as being less than a non-pure AT when I finally received the grades. So yes I was very dissapointed and figured that no one would want semen from a class II stallion so decided to geld him without having his semen collected (saved me a lot of money).
And made all this vague plans about proving him in sports and then if MAAK ever asked me why I gelded him without at least having his semen collected tell them: "Because you graded him as having NO value to the breed(so it's YOUR OWN fault!!) ".

And getting a little sweet revenge that way. Time has eased my feelings in the mean time but the dream is still somewhere in the back of my head .

Anyways part of his low grading was due to the fact he was too small... he has more than made up with reaching 1.60m in August and he still hasn't stopped growing.



10. Jessica01/04/2007 09:04:02


Tabitha, it is a difference between registering and inscribing into a studbook, only the animals that have registered offspring are entered into the studbook. For your horse this will never happen as now he is gelded. If you read though the first paragraph from the rules and regulations for the studbook it says that eventhough a purebred Teke has offspring, he or she can be denied inscription into the studbook if they have a class II grading. This means that Tekes that have been registered in the studbook as purebreds, just like your horse, will be denied inscription if they do not fulfil breed requirements. The breed requirements for Tekes is being graded class I or elite by T. Ryabova.
I checked the sire of your horse in the 10th studbook he is not entered either as a breeding horse but only registered. He is however inscribed into the Swiss Studbook (Band 1, 2000) without offspring though. You probably could have had your horse graded by the Swiss Studbook as the sire is inscribed there.
But for the Russian studbook we will have two classes of Tekes, one with status registered and producing and one with status entered into the studbook and producing and what is the real difference. This does not make sense to me at all.

About the height of your horse affecting his gradings, this I cannot believe was the reason as he was graded as a two-year-old, his measurements should not affect his gradings until he is at least three. Would that be the case then I think you should make an official request to VNIIK to motivate the grading to class II, and ask for a written statement. As far as I understand from earlier postings you made on this matter, you did not get a protocol on site from the grading?
To add to the confusion;
In the 10th studbook there are 2 stallions and 13 mares inscribed with class II gradings.



11. Tabitha01/04/2007 10:11:06


Agan was graded in May 2005, he would've been 3 in July 2005.
So I guess he was graded as being 3 years-old. Or wouldn't he?

And no.. I did not receive motivation to why or a filled protocol indicating the measurements taken. Even though I and severall others have specifically asked for (on site!).
All we received were the plane and final grades.

I figured out his measurements by checking the MAAK site and then looking at the measurement behind each grade.



12. Darya01/04/2007 10:16:27
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


Why is it confusing that there are 2 stallions and 13 mares with grade II that are inscribed? It only says "can be refused" not "all of them will be refused". I guess it is just another way to give them control over things...



13. maria01/04/2007 11:47:28


brain, brain, brain... I don't quite understand, Jessica, what's meant by registering and inscribing. So according to these published "rules", one can DNA-test a foal and send the results to VNIIK and he will be issued with registration papers to say he is a purebred AT, an international MAAK passport (which, for example, Darya's horses and Mualim arrived with from Russia). However, as an owner, if Mualim has off-spring, and the off-sping is registered, AND if Mualim is graded Class 1 or above, I can apply to VNIIK to have him inscribed in vol 11. In vol 10, his sire is there, and his dam is there under her dam. So if this is the case, what exactly is wrong with this system? In other words, Studbook records animals which are considered important/valuable for future breed development and there is also a registration process (almost like a wider, bigger studbook, which records all purebreds). What is wrong with such a system? Is it totally different from the way previous studbooks had been compiled? I can see that it kind-of combbines the principles of Closed Studbook with those of a Warmblood studbook. Or am I wrong and missing something?



14. shael01/04/2007 23:07:00
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


4. В Госплемкнигу записываются жеребцы и кобылы в возрасте 3-х лет и старше, бонитированные не ниже 1 класса, имеющие приплод и отвечающие требованиям селекции.
Запись в Госплемкнигу производится на основании заявления владельца, предоставляющего все необходимые сведения, которые содержит Госплемкнига.
Stallions and mares of three years old and above who have progeny and confirm to the requirements of selection are entered in the Stud Book. The grading must not be lower than 1 class. Entry in the Stud Book is made on application of the owner who presents all the necessary information contained in the Stud Book.

So, all information is from breeder or owner and classification too.



15. Jessica01/05/2007 14:24:40


Maria, you are right about the registration and the entry into the studbook. But there is a rule, that says that "the grading must not be lower than 1 class" for a Teke to be inscribed into the studbook. This means that purity is no longer the sole criteria for a pure bred Teke to be inscribed into the studbook, but a grading performed at the inscription that can disqualify a pure bred Teke from being entered into the studbook. In the world of horse breeding that decision is also a disqualification for producing for the studbook.



16. Mindy Martinson01/09/2007 10:12:31


Hello - I am a total novice to the Akhal-Teke breed, but I have been doing a lot of studying about them on line and am totally fascinated. I am very confused, however, reading all of the posts here about russian registration requirements and the stud book. Is there an alternative place where Akhal-Tekes can be registered? Jessica, where do you register all the beautiful horses you breed?
Mindy



17. Maria01/09/2007 16:00:54


Jessica, to take my question further, I understand that these rules we are looking set purity as the first criterion for entry into the studbook and then set an additional criterion, i.e. grading. What is wrong in principle with the system which requires both criteria to be met? Would it not act similarly to approval of animals for breeding and prevent less typical horses and those with flaws in conformation or genetic conditions from influencing the development of the breed?

We have discussed on the blog before whether there should be restrictions placed on breeding from certain individual animals. Many of the participants in these discussions are/were in favour of such restrictions (although, we know Leonid is not). If approval of animals for breeding is seen as desirable, why is it not desirable to have to meet Class 1 condition before a horse can be entered into the studbook? Or do you, and others, favour a system when every purebred is entered into the studbook but also given a approved breeding status? I realise that Leonid favours a system where purity alone is a condition to enter the studbook and no regulations are imposed on the breeders. (Back after a trip to Holland, hence replying long after my original question).



18. Hans-Jurg Buss01/09/2007 17:44:09


Jessica has brought up a very important issue. Difference between registration (wider population of the breed) and inscription (smaller population). Only criteria for differentiation according to Jessica in closed pure bred breed should be whether a horse has offspring or not. That excludes of course ex ante all registered geldings to be inscribed. MAAK combines this criteria with grading requirements. At first sight this could make sense, as Maria explains, as it may contribute to improvement of the breed by eliminating "less typical " horses or horses with defects. I do not think however that this "selection" is in line with concept of pure bred breeding. But if yes, the more important question arises: who makes this kind of grading? Who is in control of that? We all know what the present status is... Or we all go the easy way opened by Leonid: all information is from breeder or owner and classification too (if you believe it or not: all my horses are Elite graded by myself!)



19. shael01/10/2007 02:35:37
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


Hans-Jurg Buss and you have this rights according of this Status.
All my horses are superelite.



20. Darya01/10/2007 04:42:53
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


Ok, I will think again than if one of you offers me your superelite horses for sale. This is not funny though, cos rules like this in certain hands can be like a razor in the hands of a monkey.



21. shael01/10/2007 05:46:05
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


If our customers are monkeys and have not heads with eyes. I can not understand, why do you need any estimation of your horses. This is problem of western customers only. For eastern customers is only one criterion - "I like, or I do not like".



22. Darya01/10/2007 06:13:23
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


I think it is to do with the value, Leonid. Just because I really like my horses, doesn't mean everyone will agree with me and say they are certain value. I guess we could attach the "like" counter to every horse, so it goes by how many people like it and it is recorded and the value of the horse increases. They like everything on paper here in the West, that is how they protect themselves from greedy others. It is all about money Leonid.



23. Darya01/10/2007 06:15:38
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


P.S. "The razor in the hands of a monkey" is just an expression to show how certain things can be harmful in the hands of certain individuals.



24. Jessica01/10/2007 10:41:43


The studbooks for the TB and the Arabians were created by westerners, the only criteria for inscriptions into these studbooks are purity. The Russians created an ad hoc system of studbook inscription for a breed they market as the oldest purebred in the world. It was not the westerners that created the grading system it was the Russians that created this mess.
This, however, is not a question of Russians and westerners, this is a very serious question for the survival of this breed.
A breed is about horses but also about what you get when you buy a breed, some breeds are "tickets" that will give you an entrance to magic worlds, it might be the racing world, the western world, the world of breeding and showing the most beautiful and mythical breed in the world (no this is not the Teke this is the Arabians that own this concept today, ask the public). What do you get when you buy a Teke?
The way a breed is managed reflects onto the breed, more today than ever.
I think that the Tekes are the most beautiful breed in the world both their looks and their minds, they do not deserve being dragged in the mud.



25. Jessica01/10/2007 10:47:19


Mindy, welcome to this heavenly breed. As per today there is one mother studbook were Tekes are supposed to be registered with.
We have followed the rules and registered our Tekes with the mother studbook, however since the 10th studbook was published we have been a little bit careful on what to do with those of our horses that are DNA-typed but not registered with the mother studbook yet.
Our intentions have alsways been to do what we think is best for the breed today and for future breeders and now we ask ourselves, is the present system something to invest in or not?
I would like to emphasise though, that it is NEVER wrong to buy a Teke!



26. maria01/10/2007 10:50:51


Leaving the gradings as a criterion for inscription into the studbook aside... I know little about the creation of Arab studbook but more about TB. The studbook was closed at a certain point in time after which purity became the only criterion of entry. Performance plays a part because the breeding goals are so clear but it isn't a criterion for inscription. However, before the TB studbook was closed, didn't every country gentleman keep his own studbook? And into those they inscribed whatever they considered suitable, mostly on the grounds of race records but I reckon, occasionally on the looks as well - ie if a good-looking Eastern stallion came to England, it might be entered because he was perceived as a potential improver. So, viewed from this perspective, AT General Studbook is travelling back in time: purity USED to be the criterion but now Class and quality of off-spring is. Wrong? Maybe. What's wrong with it? Not sure! Don't know enough.



27. Jessica 01/10/2007 10:54:18


Maria, I have always been pro stallion licensing for this breed.
I think that many mare owners and the breed would benefit from such a system. The systems for stallion licensing based on testing the EBV and reporting the BV can be worked out in many ways and would not be the same as not including purebred Tekes with offspring in the studbook.
I would see it more as creating a section of tested and approved sires for breed improvement and follow and evaluate these stallions annually to exclude those who do not produce as prognosed.
The studbook with its original intentions, in my opinion can not exclude pure horses based on outdated, subjective evaluations.



28. Jessica01/10/2007 12:48:10


If you want to implement a system that will disqualify certain individuals as producer for a breed (this is the most used system today for studbooks) you must be very clear to the public on what traits that will disqualify an individual from being accepted as a breeding animal, you must also work out a system that is as transparent as possible in order to make the breeders accept the fact that some of their animals will be kassated as breeding stock.
You cannot like MAAK use an ad hoc system based on the subject opinion of one person.
I have always thought that the dynamic gradings have been of not so much value myself and also understood that people within this breed after a while realise that it is better to learn yourself what kind of Tekes you like and what kind of traits you find acceptable instead of consider especially the private gradings performed by one judge as important at all.
However, will the gradings be used as criteria for not inscribing purebreds as producers into the studbook, the situation is much more dire for change.
I do not think that there is knowledge and understanding within MAAK for how to set up and maintain such a system.
Does anyone know of any traits that will disqualify a Teke from becoming a producer? Are there any publications where one can find the Tekes that have status registered because they were not approved? Or will we have to ask ourselves when we look at registered horses if they are not approved or do they not have registered offspring?



29. maria01/10/2007 13:12:21


Yes.... I was trying to separate the theory from practice. Trying to take these rules MAAK has published and imagine whether, if they were implemented perfectly, they would constitute a good system. Any rules, if not implemented properly, make a bad system. I can certainly see the arbitrary nature of dynamic gradings and the danger of UNEXPECTEDLY making these a factor in studbook inscription. In fact, the rules we are discussing have more a feel of a general discussion, projection, rather than something that is already in operation. Actually, does anyone know if these rules are already being applied, or were applied when compiling the last volume or have been introduced since? In other words, if this is a change from the previous system, when is/was the effective date?



30. Jessica 01/10/2007 15:50:01


Well....not always easy to separate theory from practice in the Tekes but I see what you mean. I will make a new thread for theoretical discussion regarding type/soundness/conformation/performance approval vs purity approval to a new thread.



31. Mindy Martinson01/10/2007 18:10:52


Jessica - as to your comment of "it is NEVER wrong to buy a Teke", that is my sentiment exactly, and I can't wait to own one, which, with luck being on my side, will be in the very near future! I am, however, somewhat confused in that you seem to be saying that lately you have not registered your Akhal-Teke babies, for reasons I don't understand. But by saying it is NEVER wrong to buy a Teke you are more or less implying that it would be OK to buy one, at least from you, anyway, that wasn't registered. A I totally misunderstanding what you are saying? I mean, it seems to me, that it would be very foolhardy to buy any supposedly purebred horse without proper official registration papers. I mean how would one know for sure that it was a purebred, not to mention how would one know for sure the horses parentage? I have no doubt that you, yourself, would be totally honest in your dealings, but this is, after all the world of the "horse trader". I think that official Registration papers are very important, and I don't believe that I would buy any supposed purebred horse without them. Granted I am a totally ignorant novice, but I think I am right about this.
Does anyone else have an opinion? Mindy



32. Hans-Jurg Buss01/10/2007 19:01:25


Hello Mindy
It is great that you like the Tekes and can not wait to own one. But when I read your posting you seem to be more interested in a paper than a horse. When I bought my first Tekes, paper did not interest me at all. I looked at the horse and was impressed by the outstanding expression of a Teke. All questions with regard to papers and so on for me came much, much later. And all my Tekes are pure bred. If you do not want to breed question of papers is not the most important one. A good Teke without papers (which may arrive some years later due to "organization" of MAAK) is better than a bad one with papers. Why do you concentrate on papers? We are not dealing with shares, it is about horses!



33. Mindy Martinson01/10/2007 20:13:32


Well, Hans, I guess my concern about papers is becuse my family used to own and race Thoroughbreds many, many years ago, and a horse without official registration papers could not participate in racing. I do agree with you that for a pleasure horse (if you are not breeding) papers are really not important. Unless, of course, you have a mare (I personally prefer mares) and one day you decide to breed her. Please do not think I am challenging you here - this is just a question: You state that all of your horses are purbreds. Well, I don't know you, or anything about you, and if I were to want to buy a horse from you, what proof would you have that it is a purebred if you don't have official registration papers? I would want to be able to say to people "look at my purebred Akhal-Teke" and KNOW that is what he/she was. Especially when we get into the price ranges that no doubt apply to purebred Akhal-Tekes. Sure, I can buy a "just plain horse", of no particular breeding, and with no particular looks and no particular talents for $500 or less. I haven't seriously checked into it, but I am willing to bet that an average purebred Akhal-Teke is going to run $10,000 or better - and for that I woud certainly want official registration papers.
OK - I've been ranting enough - sorry - Mindy



34. Hans-Jurg Buss01/10/2007 20:32:27


Mindy, you are perfectly right. When I bought my first Tekes, the papers arrived six (!) years later. But I did know that they were pure. Why? Look at the horse.



35. shael01/11/2007 01:17:16
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


Papers must be!!!



36. Jessica01/11/2007 07:50:12


Mindy, I recommend you and every prospective buyer to ask for registration papers for a purebred horse. If you find a Teke you like that has not registration papers to prove its purity you ask the seller to see to it that the registration is being made.





37. Mindy Martinson01/11/2007 09:15:58


Thank you, and of course, Jessica, I would never buy a purebred without papers. But, Hans, I am fascinated by you. What an amazing talent - to be able to determine if a horse is a purebred simply by looking at it! Can you do that with other breeds as well, or just Akhal-Tekes? Where are you located? Your skill must be very much in demand in your area. Of course I am sure you are not able to determine a horse's parentage simply by looking at it - at least not with any degree of accuracy. So in the long run papers would be necessary anyway.
Mindy



38. Jessica01/11/2007 11:02:14


Mindy, I think you have come to the conclusion yourself that you will buy a Teke with registration papers.
I hope that you have been able to read and reflect about the postings on this blog that there are many other aspects to this breed than the registration papers.
There is a difference between a "paper purebred" and a Teke that itself tells you I am a purebred by having the look and the type. There are actually part breds that have better type than some pure breds, Hans-Jürg and most other experienced breeders that offer valuable advice on this blog know this very well and would of course not offer to verify paper purity by the look of a horse.
If you read the latest postings on the grading system I also hope that you will use your own eyes to determine the quality of the horse regarding type, conformation, soundness and temperament and not rely blindly on the gradings.
I am curious on your new Teke, as soon as you have bought your horse I am looking forward to learn more about it!



39. Heather Mahoney01/11/2007 14:13:26


Hans-Jurg,
While I see what Mindy is saying, Jessica has vouched for you to the utmost, and I know what you mean when you say "Look at the horse." One of the attractive qualities of Tekes is their unique bearing which is so distinguishable that it does seem that you could pick a fine one out of a herd with no problem.
Are there any photos of your horses published online somewhere?? I'm still hoping the Europe trip this summer flies - don't think I've forgotten Darya and Maria! - but personally I'd love more immediate gratification! Or rather, perhaps you can email a few??
Cheers,
Heather



40. Mindy Martinson01/11/2007 14:44:01


Jessica - thank you for your recent comments. I do appreciate that Hans is an eperienced breeder, and, as Heather says you vouch for him in every way. I do feel, nonetheless, that he was rather cavalier with his remark to me, an obvious Teke novice. But enough of that.
I have been thinking that perhaps my first step should be to buy a partbred Akhal Teke. As you pointed out, there are some partbreds with more type than some purebreds. I was at the Kentucky Horse Park this past September and saw a number of absolutely gorgeous Akhal Tekes, and among them was a young partbred filly who, to my untutored eye, was every bit as beautiful. I remember that her owners said she was for sale, but I have lost the business card they gave me. I have it somewhere, but. Anyway, were you by any chance down at the Kentucky Horse Park that weekend? If so, do you happen to remember this filly, and better yet, do you happen to know or know of her owners? If not you, maybe someone else on your blog can help me out here. I wish I could remember the filly's name. Anyway, it's just idea, but I would like to be able to check it out if possible. Thank you - Shirley



41. Darya01/11/2007 14:56:51
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


Hi Heather,
nice to see you on the blog again, and will be nice to see you in person. We are taking both boys to Devon County in may and will be showing them under saddle. I'm afraid it will only be Dominik on the Royal Show as it is a bit far for Maria to travel with Mualim. Probably worth it to see my madam, but she is staying at home I'm afraid. Would be nice if you could see all 3 horses and ride the boys, so you can try as many Tekes under saddle as possible and know what you are looking for when it comes to buying your horse.

Hello and welcome Mindy, and good luck with your horse shopping, keep us up to date.

Best,

Darya



42. mindy martinson01/11/2007 17:55:07


Hi Jessica - I just noticed that I signed my last post "Shirley". That is so weird - I was thinking in my mind that it was a "Shirley" who owned the filly at the Kentucky Horse Park that I was talking about. Is it a "Shirley" who I am looking for? The name means nothing to me, actually. I don't know a Shirley. Hopefully someone can help me out here. Thanks - Mindy



43. Hans-Jurg Buss01/11/2007 18:42:09


Hello Mindy
I am used to talk to persons which use their brains and are honest. Had you read my posting in a way to understand its real intention you would well have learnt what I wanted to say: You are not really interested in buying a Teke. What your intentions are I do not know.

Now to all others really interested in this. Of course for the breed as a whole correct registration papers are a must. Also for me. But when you want to buy a Teke I advice you to first look at the horse, and then at the papers. It is obvious that I can not decide just from looking whether a specific horse is pure bred or not. That was an ironic joke. But if a breeder has not yet official documents for whatever reason and you do not trust him, you take DNA material , send it to a certified Institute and get the answer. That costs you about US$ 40. And I do have these results from DNA analysis for all my Tekes with me at home, which prove the purity. If you have MAAK papers, have you ever seen the official results of the blood tests done by VNIIK? Are you sure that these tests prove your horse to be pure? I have several Tekes with original MAAK papers. But of none of them I have the official analysis results. I have other Tekes inscribed in the Swiss Stud book, and I have the DNA results with me and can show them at anytime.

If I want to breed with a specific horse, the question arises whether it would be necessary to register it also with MAAK. But if a have a gelding and I have the DNA results, why should I register him with MAAK? He will never be used in breeding. As long as I use him for riding and in sports, I do not need the "official" MAAK papers. What I want to have is a good performing and looking Teke. That he is pure I do know from DNA analysis. If I should want to sell my sports gelding and the buyer insists in MAAK papers, okay I can always register him because he is pure.



44. Anne-Marie01/11/2007 20:14:56
Homepage: http://freedomrunfarm.com


Mindy,

Shirley Schulz owns the part bred filly that was at the horse park her email is emfarmsss@webtv.net. The fillies name is something like "dark amber"

Anne-Marie



45. Mindy Martinson01/12/2007 08:21:48


That's it, Anne-Marie! Thank you, thank you. I some how knew the name was Shirley, and I think you are right that the filly's name was Dark Amber. I can't remember the name of her sire, but I do recall that there were several other very attractive young purebreds there by him also. Anyway, I'll email Shirley Schultz and we'll see what happens.
Come to think of it, Anne-Marie, your name rings a bell too.
Were you down at the Kentucky Horse park that weekend too? By any chance are you a tall blonde, and did you have a big, very handsome black stallion named something like "Salem"?
Anyway, again thanks for the contact information.
Mindy



46. Mindy Martinson01/12/2007 08:48:22


Hans - I do apologize for mis-reading the intent of your remark. It just seemed so "flippant" to me, and perhaps I am over-sensitive.
Mindy



47. Jessica 01/12/2007 09:06:22


I apologise to my blog friends that have in good faith replied to a guest of this blog that calls herself Mindy Martinson, this is not the real identity of this person and by now I guess many of you have figured out who the person is behind this identity. This is my virtual living room, scams like this does not belong here, I ask this person to leave this blog or reveal her real identity otherwise further communication from Mindy Martinson will be blocked.



48. Jessica01/12/2007 09:13:43


Heather, welcome back to the blog, it's nice to hear your voice again.



Blocked Response!01/12/2007 13:38:31


This response from IP Address 4.170.27.197 was blocked by the owner of this blog.



1. shael11/26/2006 12:09:24
Homepage: http://shael-teke.com


Wellcome!!!



1. Sophie11/09/2005 16:36:54


I want to own an akhal teke : he (her) will be a member of our family and then I read your blog, I think more and more that an horse of this bred will bring us a lot. At this time, I try to find a lot of informations about AT (history, pedigrees and lines, breeders an their goats...). So, I visit your website and I read with attention the comments of very well-known breeders (thank a lot for these). I visit also russians websites where I can find a lot of photos (shael, AT-service...) and these photos are very important to understand the bred because it is difficult to find AT in flesh (I once saw a stallion, two mares and offsprings in Germany a few years ago)!
Perhaps, you may recommand adresses of breeders in France or Germany, to visit them (unfortunately, Sweden is far)? THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!



2. Jessica 11/10/2005 10:34:29


I ususally say that if you go to Russia you will find your Teke there, but, it might not be for sale! To visit a few larger breeders in Russia though is the best Teke school you can go to, you might find it worth while to spend time and effort on a trip there before you look for your Teke in Europe.
If you feel that you need to have a Teke quickly and cannot wait until you have arranged yout pilgrimage to Russia I would recommend you to get in touch with Jean-Pierre Bués and his wife Natascha, email jpbues@club-internet.fr , they have been working a lot with the breed and take well care of their horses. There was a breed show in France last summer, I will see if I can get hold of the results to publish here, but from the reports I got from Teke people that went there the Wenmans, email tinawenman@aol.com had a lot of success with their Tekes, most of them where imports from Shael.
It is not a bad idea actually to save pictures of Tekes you like and show them to the breeders you meet or even email them to the breeders, you can explain that this is the type you are looking for and the breeder can tell you if the breed for the same type you like. Eventhough a picture will not tell you about the temperament, movements and workability of the horse it is still a way for you explain to the breeders what you are looking for typewise.



3. Sophie11/10/2005 15:51:04


Thank you very much for taking time to help me in my quest. Your advices are very precious, I think. I've read these names on websites : they are members of the french association. I'm not in a hurry : it's too important!



1. Sophie11/10/2005 15:51:06


Thank you very much for taking time to help me in my quest. Your advices are very precious, I think. I've read these names on websites : they are members of the french association. I'm not in a hurry : it's too important!



1. maria09/20/2005 18:16:40


Jessica, what's Tifton hay???

I can testify the inconvenience of horses getting sick when they shouldn't: four years ago I sent Altai to full livery 75 miles away from home when I was going through a lot of upheaval, moving house and getting married. I sent him away with a heavy heart but I wasn't coping with commuting between four places: work, my house, Nigel's house, stable.

I went to visit him a few days later and found him rather unsettled and not quite himself. It was hard to pin down and people told me I was fussing for no good reason and the livery owner hinted that they didn't really want me to keep coming and checking on him, which, I guess, is fair enough.

After 5 weeks - the day before our wedding!!!!!! - I had a message on the answer-phone saying "Altai had colicked". I tried to ring back but was unable to reach the livery owner. Needless to say, I was sick with guilt and worry and ready to call off the wedding (and, probably, the rest of my life).

The wedding went ahead but then we were due to leave for Europe for a week the same evening and I had to trust that I will still have a horse when I got back.

Well, I did and he got moved as soon as we were back and took 10 minutes to settle in the new place. I learned a valuable lesson: TRUST YOURSELF. Try to recognise in yourself when you are exaggerating and worrying in vain but, at the end of the day, if you think the horse you know well looks distressed, it probably IS distressed. It can be for all sorts of reasons and hotbloods are notorious for being picky about their surroundings. Colick is usually food induced but I am convinced other factors can sometimes play a part too.



1. Jessica D.04/24/2007 20:55:13


This is why I can not wait to get a Teke of my own so I can show it in Hunters...I think they will excell in this show world with the right training. :) The Hunter world is my passion and I love it....it's looking like a few more years till I can take my Teke in the hunter circuit...but eventually I will get there...and Im looking forward to it.

Jessica - any idea when the Show will be in FL yet? I am still planning on trying to be there but my husband has to put in for the time off...so any tentative dates yet?? :)



2. Jessica04/25/2007 08:49:59


The more I learn about hunters the more I understand how suitable it is for the Tekes. Great that we have on more supporter, feel free to join the Darby Turks Hunter Club!
More about the show in the nearest few days.



1. dasha03/25/2006 21:29:23


Jessica
Really aprriciated your picture with Pekhimli`s squiky bear. We both laughed so hard! She looks beatifull. We had a hard day where we had to go to neighbours and of course right a way Cesar was given a task of helping with putting medicine in the mounth of 3 weeks old colt...Cesar was just like a spider men flying in between post-race mare (which acted like tiger) and baby. I don`t know how but they did it. Then neighbours helped us and we brought Sophie and Baby back. It was quite easy - I was happy I didn`t have to watch how they put them in the trailer. When we came back home Sophie just turned around and walked out of trailer, the Baby was standing and mumbling with high voice for a little bit and then jumped out of trailer. Paikhas was all excited about the new addition and was running around. I think she would fee less lonely knowing there is a company next door. After that we had to jump back and drove to another city where we had to go through property inspection on the house we are selling. Finally the day is over with all horses in one spot. Uf!



2. Tabitha03/28/2006 05:43:48


She truly is a Fearless Teke! Great picture of Pekhimly. and her courbette is lovely.



3. Jessica 03/28/2006 12:17:04


Dascha. The life of a horse owner, I think you realise now, is never boring and always busy.



1. Leonid01/07/2006 02:47:28
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Bravo Jessica!



2. Leonid01/07/2006 08:53:15
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


I hope we can create three race days at Moscow Hippodrom in 2006.



3. Jessica 01/13/2006 15:05:11


Very interesting news Leonid. Please publish dates for the races as soon as you know.
Todd and I are realling missing Russia now when we are so far away, maybe Moscow races could be a reason for us to go!



4. Leonid01/14/2006 02:06:22
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


One date I know. 18 june, day of competition of Prize of President of Russia. There will be present all haut monde of Russia and from many, many countries. There will be Teke-race in the race programm.



5. Leonid01/14/2006 02:08:52
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


And will be show of akhalteke Sires from our Stud



1. shael11/09/2006 22:16:14
Homepage: http://shael-teke.com


Thank, thank, thank yoooooou!!!!!!!



2. Darya11/10/2006 02:44:42
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


Happy Birthday, Shael!

Lovely picture, I don't think Djigits wore sunglasses though.



3. Portia 11/10/2006 16:44:41


You guys never looked better



1. Carolyn05/03/2007 12:36:20


I would say that there are definitely some Nisean-esque qualities in a several of those horses. They don't have the heavy, roman-nosed head that was a hallmark of the Nisean breed- but it is entirely possible that it was bred out of them over time.
This may be an ignorant question, but are there many mares who fall into the massive category? Does the massive line have a deeper chest than the others?
One of my (ambitious) projects for the future is to try and look at images and remains of the horse from antiquity to see how the types of horses change or stay the same over time- what types are coming from what regions and so forth.



2. Kerri-Jo Stewart05/03/2007 13:35:41
Homepage: http://Akhal-Teke.ca


to my eye Gayaz is very different from what I considered the more massive type, like Ararat and Ametist. How are you making the comparisons?



3. Nathalie05/04/2007 05:15:58


jessica < how do you describe the nissean type ? When I look at your photos, I can say the very long neck like a swam but also thick, compact and strong body, hooked nose, big sizes. So what do you think of Azan's type ? Horses of line Everdi Teleke looks like this description but the body is not so compact as Ararat or Ametist.
I have an other question concerning the ancient type. According to A. Kimuk, Pampa has the ancient type. What does it means ? It is the nissean type ? What's the reference of this ancient type ? How can we say that it is ancient type ? does it come from turkmenian tradition or from scientific research ?



4. Ingrid Høvik05/04/2007 06:44:31


I have a offspring after Singapour, Saad and I wonder where you folks would place him? He is 161cm and you can check him out on this link
http://vip.hestemarked.no/galleri.asp?ID=8610&galleri=show&side=4

Jessica: what do you mean with this: Ararat (note that he is sable legged, a fault to look out for in the Arab line)? English is not my mother tongue, so I had to look up the word sable and translated that means in Norwegian: dark, black, soergeklaer



5. Jessica 05/04/2007 13:46:36


Carolyn, there are massive mares in this breed with deep/big chest circumference. Our foundation mare Alma is a good example. We call her our Kazakh panzarwagon.
When I have time I'll search our studbook database for the chest circumferences. However, the numbers in the studbook cannot be trusted so whatever I get from my search will not be 100% description of the reality.
Another question, if you measure chest circumference, where and how do you measure?



6. Jessica 05/04/2007 13:50:53


Kerry-Jo, these horses serve more like examples of what I consider Nisena type of horses, these are based on my personal observations of how the Nisean horse is described etc. I think that Gayaz have very many Nisean qualities, maybe this photo is not the best illustrating this horse but in the flesh and in his appearance and movements I'd say he is very Nisean. I should have presented another photo.



7. Jessica 05/04/2007 14:02:31


Nathalie, I can only speak for myself not being a scientist more a breeder that is trying to grasp what is within the range of type for my breed and in doing so I have to travel in history. The futher back we go the less we know and more is left for presumptions or imagination.
Carolyn, that I am so grateful she found this blog, is the scientist and is a great person to test wild hypothesis with.
That's how I see it. With ancient we talk about several types of horses that have influenced the modern Teke.
Klimuk is an authority on the modern Teke breed as well as its history. He has bred several roman headed Tekes and I can maybe guess that he also see the Nisean horses in these traits?
Maybe he eventually has time to answer himself on the blog, I know this subject is very interesting to him.
Azan is an extraordinary animal and I put him, like Gayaz in the Nisean category, the Tekes are not the Nisean breed but some horses within the breed show many Nisean traits.
I think by discussing this and more thoroughly examine the different Teke looks we can train and stimulate our eye for the horses we work with.
What is modern and what is ancient in the Teke breed, well, that's another stimulating and interesting discussion!



8. Carolyn05/04/2007 23:06:10


Hmm, I'm not sure what the exact points for chest circumference are, is it from shoulder to shoulder? Or just the breadth of the front of the chest, looking head on at the horse?



9. laurence Bougault05/05/2007 07:12:59
Homepage: http://www.cheval-akhal-teke.com


Question to specialists: who owns Narguil-Guely at the moment?



10. maria05/06/2007 05:37:37


This is the best discussion on AT type I have ever read since getting involved with the breed now seven years ago. Let's continue it! I too was first surprised that Jessica added Gayaz to the list of massive-type horses but, in fact, now that I think of it, when I did see Gayaz in real life, the image he leaves is in line with what is being observed in this type.



11. maria05/06/2007 08:36:53


Jessica, there is another picture of Audan where he is shown closer - he is a good massive chap! Any fans of this type of Teke? I confess I am!!



12. Jessica05/07/2007 09:58:50


Maria, I agree that it is stimulating to look at the horses from different viewpoints, good training for the eye.
And again there is a difference between massive or maybe Nissean type and coarse simple type of Teke.
I you have a better photo of Audan and want me to publish it you can email it to me.



1. Leonid03/11/2006 06:45:46
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.prokoni.ru/photo/konkur_pradar2006/1/Ahaltekintsy-7.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.prokoni.ru/photo/konkur_pradar2006/1/Ahaltekintsy-6.jpg">

<IMG src="http://www.prokoni.ru/photo/konkur_pradar2006/1/Ahaltekintsy-10.jpg">
Kaytag Shael, Yas Yar, Dalay Shael



2. Leonid03/11/2006 06:51:55
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.prokoni.ru/photo/konkur_pradar2006/1/Ahaltekintsy-9.jpg">



3. Leonid03/11/2006 06:54:48
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.prokoni.ru/photo/konkur_pradar2006/1/Ahaltekintsy-2.jpg">
Juruga Shael



4. Leonid03/11/2006 13:57:18
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://images.allexpo.ru/photoreports/633/file1027.jpg">



5. Leonid03/11/2006 14:16:39
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


That was Rahmagli Shael
<IMG src="http://images.allexpo.ru/photoreports/633/file1073.jpg">
<IMG src="http://images.allexpo.ru/photoreports/633/file1075.jpg">
<IMG src="http://images.allexpo.ru/photoreports/633/file1079.jpg">
<IMG src="http://images.allexpo.ru/photoreports/633/file1083.jpg">
this is Namus Shael
<IMG src="http://images.allexpo.ru/photoreports/633/file1151.jpg">
<IMG src="http://images.allexpo.ru/photoreports/633/file1183.jpg">
<IMG src="http://images.allexpo.ru/photoreports/633/file1187.jpg">
Murgi Shael
<IMG src="http://images.allexpo.ru/photoreports/408/file1087.jpg">



6. Dasha03/12/2006 07:59:09


Hello Jessica,
I liked a lot Leonid`s links with photos. ATs are the most beatifull horses in the world! Paikhas is doing good, shedding a lot. We started ground driving her to put head down, she seems to like it so far. I look silly walking behind her with two white robs attached to the saddle. She was in heat so acted out a bit which is unussual for her. She already knows three walks and two trouts and my trainer Kate thinks that Paikhas is a wonderfull mover. I would like to get another AT mare so I can breed one next year, Paikhas most likely has to continue training... I will be looking for tall 16 hands AT if I can find one. I thought about stallion but after watching them on another farms I don`t think I am ready. Not yet.
On the Verge (Thoroughbred) had a filly two weeks ago - Nikita The Russian Agent, very pretty dark brown with black mane and tail. I am probably not going to race her and will raise her as riding horse. She will have to carry her parents` racing name for the history. So I am all around mom these days catching Niki and halter breaking and holding her. Hopefully in three weeks they are getting back home.



7. Todd Keith03/13/2006 09:54:11
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com


Nice pictures Leonid!
I'll have to figure out how to link them directly into the blog...
Will let you know when I figure it out.

Cheers,
Todd



8. Leonid03/13/2006 12:20:00
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Please, Todd!



9. Jessica 03/13/2006 18:04:40


Nice pictures and good job Leonid. Very important for the breed to show high quality animals in good condition.
Who is the handler? He seems to do a good job. Must have long strides and good condition to show in hand like he does.
And you know I have a soft spot for YasYar, since 1998 I have dreamed to see him in training in Sweden. But now I guess it is to late or maybe step by step I can get him to my motherland.



10. Leonid03/14/2006 02:09:53
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


It is Vitaly Andrukhovich, wich rided YasYar.



11. Jessica03/14/2006 09:15:49


Dascha. Congratulations to your TB foal. I think it is time for some Turkmen plov at our house. I will call you about a suitable plov date. I'm also very much looking forward to seen Paikhas again soon.



12. Leonid03/26/2006 00:51:35
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.prokoni.ru/forum/album_mod/upload/c5e34b031c1c8c346947f4315fca2ac6.jpg">



13. Leonid03/26/2006 01:12:33
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290163.jpg">
This is Garant



14. Leonid03/26/2006 01:19:37
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290159.jpg">



15. Leonid03/26/2006 01:21:27
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290178.jpg">



16. Leonid03/26/2006 01:26:09
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290194.jpg">



17. Leonid03/26/2006 01:27:10
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290192.jpg">



18. Leonid03/26/2006 01:29:08
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290186.jpg">



19. Leonid03/26/2006 01:31:58
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290195.jpg">



20. Leonid03/26/2006 01:34:26
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290259.jpg">



21. Leonid03/26/2006 01:35:43
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290260.jpg">



22. Leonid03/26/2006 01:37:50
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290449.jpg">



23. Leonid03/26/2006 01:41:03
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290295.jpg">



24. Leonid03/26/2006 01:45:34
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Khabib shael (Gayaz-Aykhanum), yearling,
<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290487.jpg">



25. Leonid03/26/2006 01:48:35
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Pendjire (Karar-Pinega), two years old,
<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290578.jpg">



26. Leonid03/26/2006 01:50:54
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290624.jpg">



27. Leonid03/26/2006 01:53:02
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290526.jpg">



28. Leonid03/26/2006 01:58:58
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Chaka Shael (Gazyr-Gheli), two years old,
<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290658.jpg">



29. Leonid03/26/2006 02:06:01
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Garant agein,
<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290914.jpg">



30. Leonid03/26/2006 02:11:36
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Yazaydym (Orlan-Yanghylay), three years old,
<IMG src="http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290812.jpg">



31. Jessica 03/26/2006 18:54:40


Leonid. The Shael horses are getting better for each year, congratulations to a successful breeding program.
The Kruki gangsters are getting older.
The dressage talented Tekes still need western European bereiters.
Orlan is a top producer in this breed.



32. Leonid03/27/2006 00:53:48
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Jessica, thank you for kind words, may be we became older, but I think our breeding material is ripened now. How do you like Garant? I like him very much. Out of dispute, There are top group of Sires in this breed and Orlan is a big part of this group.



33. Todd Keith03/27/2006 09:56:18
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com


Hi Leonid,
I agree about Orlan. He is surely the best Gelishikli sire in the breed today. He has been ranked in Tatyana's statistics in the top 5 sires year after year. Strange how she only gave him Elite II in the 10th studbook. That's politics for you!! She told me once that Stavropol was the Flagship of Teke breeding. Now that Sasha is on her shit list, things have changed..... Judging his horses differently...
Shame for the breed!
Todd



34. Leonid03/27/2006 10:36:17
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


I am main shit in this list. But my stench is very toxic. I am for wide shit list. It is good company.



35. Todd Keith03/27/2006 11:05:20
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com


I guess we have good company as we are also on the shit list...
What is your opinion of the Top Sire list?
I see some of the following on that list:
Orlan
Gaigizis
Piyada
??
Who else would you put on the list?
Todd



36. Leonid03/27/2006 11:41:04
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


My version of list:
1. Murgab;
2. Gayaz;
3. Sayvan;
4. Gazyr Shael;
5. Orlan;
6. Melesur;
7. Manas;
8. Shahar Shael;
9. Tohtamysh;
10. Karar.
Not Piyada, becourse there are not good childs.



37. Todd Keith03/27/2006 12:25:14
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com


Surely Gaigizis should be on the list??
He did produce Gayaz and Murgab. He is still alive...
Manas I agree. We did see some really nice foals by Karar at Sasha's. Melesur?? If Polot was still alive, I'd add him, but Melesur did give some uneven babies, specially at Tito's.... Who is Saivan?

Todd



38. Leonid03/27/2006 12:53:47
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Gayghysyz has not practic now. And I prefer his sons, but anyway he is great. Melesur has great potantial like sire. He worked for us two years and we should glad to work with him all his live. Tito's breeding is very special. Sayvan - champion of the breed 2002 (Dialog-Sonata). Sayvan is most essential young sire in the breed



39. Todd Keith03/27/2006 13:25:05
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com


Ah, just put a picture of Saivan up on my blog.
Looks very interesting and what a pedigree!
His babies are interesting I understand??

Todd



40. Jessica 03/28/2006 12:12:00


Boys. You will have to decide if you talk about the breeding value of the stallions or if you talk about the individual value of each stallion. A beautiful stallion does not always throw beautiful babies.
Improvers of the breed are without doubt Orlan and Gaygysiz. Orlan has shown the beauty and perfection of the Gelishikli line and Gaygysiz and the work with him is very important to revitalize a smaller line that has now come back to life by producing typical and beautiful Tekes. Piyada is himself an outstanding individual but to me his breeding value is unknown. I think it is very important that a breeding stallion has a good mother/mother family.



41. Jessica 03/28/2006 12:14:56


Leonid. You ask me a difficult question, I have only seen a few pictures of Garant and with a rider and saddle. From the pictures I saw he looks like he has a long and high carried neck, which is good. I would like to see him without rider on picture and of course live under rider to see his way of going under rider. Does he jump?



42. Todd Keith03/28/2006 12:22:25
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com


I was referring to the breeding value of a sire. This is why I ask about Saivan's offspring. We can see, for example, horses like Amelit or Munir that were beatiful Tekes but just never became good sires. Munir had some the the best mares from Chagorta and Stavropol but never produced offspring as good as himself let alone better than himself.

Todd



43. Leonid03/28/2006 12:36:01
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Jessica, I don't know about jumping of Garant, but he won Cup of Independent for 4 years and older in Ashhabat in a good style.



44. Jessica 03/28/2006 14:35:53


Leonid. I thought only Bashi's horses could win in Ashgabad.



45. Todd Keith03/28/2006 21:18:44
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/


Leonid,
What ever happened with Bakhtiyar?
Everyone was talking about him a few years ago as the next super sire, but I haven't anything about him since....

Todd



46. Leonid03/29/2006 02:33:27
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


Todd, ussialy everyone has name. Bakhtiyar is one of many sires. He is in Ukraine now.



47. Nadja04/08/2006 07:44:15
Homepage: http://www.akhalt-service.ru/


I absolutely not agree with Leonid.
From the above-stated stallions - many yet have not opened the potential (Sajvan, Gazyr, Shaar, Manas, Tohtamysh). The somecan in general it will not open potential. Those children who are received from them still few and are above the average quality, but not super.
I would put forward Gajgysyz, Orlan, Murghab, Karar, Alaman. And only after them I would put Gajaz, Ashug, Melesur, Karaburgut and others sires, which improve mares.
Gajgysyz belongs and used now in studfarm Geli. The last year from him it has been given birth 2 foals in Voronezh. Therefore early to forget about him. At present - it the best stallion on quality of posterity.
And I agree that from Pijada are received very mediocre children . With him refuse to cover. There are interested persons, but him is not given to use. It is a pity, that such stallion vanishes.



48. Leonid04/08/2006 12:17:41
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


It is my rating of Sires. But this list is not my dream. I suddest dream-team of Sires. There are young and beggining Sires too. This is list of Sires which we would like to use.
1. Murgab /Gayghysyz-Millet/
2. Gayaz /Gayghysyz-Pampa/
3. Yazaydym /Orlan-Yanghylay/
4. Gazyr Shael /Melesur-Ghezerli/
5. Sayvan /Dialog-Sonata/
6. Pekhimdar Murgab-Pampa/
7. Shaar Shael /Gayaz-Aida/
8. Dagomys /Garabek-Desse/
9. Alvan /Dorkush-Ayta/
10. Paradox /Polot-Pendjegul/
11. Paykend /Dasht-Prisma/
12. Garant /Gubalak-Tsitata/
13. Melesur /Sovkhoz 2-Sakharnaya/
14. Manas /Polot-Mushmula/
15. Tokhtamysh /Khalif-Tyazegul/
16. Pirakhmed /Adat-Pampa/



49. Nadja04/09/2006 07:30:29
Homepage: http://www.akhalt-service.ru/


It is surprising, that in this list is not present Karar, Orlan and Dorkush. As vary the points of view.
Also what means we? Studfarm Shael or studfarm Shael and Stavropol?



50. Leonid04/09/2006 11:33:32
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.ru


I can speak like Stud Shael only. We kept Karar four years and three of them sent him to Stavropol. We used him very limitly. We prefer sun of Orlan Yazaydym (in the dream) and we like Dorkush very much, but prefer Shahid (I forgot conclud him in the list).



Blocked Response!04/25/2006 03:33:26


This response from IP Address 62.242.231.62 was blocked by the owner of this blog.



1. Leonid03/13/2007 12:19:11
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com


There are not winged horses, they are winged goats.



2. Jessica03/13/2007 12:48:57


When you look at the pictures the first time I agree that the animals look a little bit like bird-goat-horse crosses but in the text they claim the ibex horns mounted as decorations for horses where found in the burial mounds so I guess the gold figures are winged horses with ibex horns!



3. Heather03/14/2007 09:36:35


How interesting. Too bad it's all the way out on the west coast. I just returned home EARLY this morning on the last leg of our first flight with a baby, and while she really was GREAT, I'm not ready to take on flying to Cali just this moment...



4. Carolyn03/19/2007 16:15:12


If those are horses they are indeed the strangest horses I have ever seen!
Wish I could get down to Cali to check the exhibit out...oh well.



1. Jessica D.06/22/2006 13:23:31


The last pic is very Hunter looking

This looks very similar to the Chambon http://www.divoza.com/isroot/DivozaStore/listImages/g_grn197/g_11050.jpg

It just seems to be less expensive and attatches differently...I had never thought to try using a rubber band like that...Might have to try that...

I had used a thin piece of string once that I drapped across my pony's back and then went through his front legs (with it twisted to keep both pieces together and then seperated to go to the bit) and attatched to the bit with clips on each side. (I decided that this wasn't the best solution to get his head down) Though it was cheap and worked like a training fork used for western horses.

My pony no longer has a problem going on the bit though...I ended up teaching him by letting him have his head every time I asked for him to give and he gave. He is now very light on the bit though he has a tendency to lean on it sometimes...he's lazy....sigh....how do you fix that?!?

Thanks for sharing your training techniques....it's always interesting to learn how other people train...everyone has their own styles/techniques and I think we can all learn a bit from sharing what works and what doesnt. :)



2. Jessica 06/23/2006 11:03:43


Jessica D. We do use the Chambon on Rosanna, she likes it better than the rubber band, she is very responsive and nice to the riders hand from her Chambon training. The challenge and fun about training horses, I think, is to give every individual a chance to optimise its talents, in order to do so the horses need individual training programs and solutions (our focus and fairness policy).
I think the long, low form we work our youngsters in resembles the show form for the hunters? In that case it is really a great place to start our youngsters. I have no idea about what the judges will think though!



3. Jessica D.06/23/2006 17:51:25


Just a warning....Sometimes the local hunter shows can be a little political...especially in your area... (sometimes how you place depends on who the trainer is...) Even if you don't place...because of politics...it's still fun to get your horse around and do the best you can. Although since you've said that several hunter trainers have been eyeing your horses...you may not have a problem because they will want to be on your good side since they want your horses. :) You are just in a Hot spot for Hunters is all...FL is a big time Hunter/Jumper area...and you should be able to get some good $$ for your horses if they win too!

I think that if your horses have really nice movement that is not tooo dressage like...and they have a nice long and low collection relaxed look to them...I think they should do well. That's my opinion.

I agree with you that each horse takes a different training style...some just learn faster. Some are smarter and more sensitive than others and they need different attention than a dense, and think-headed horse would need.



4. Maria06/24/2006 19:33:10


Jessica, thank you very much for the pictures. This is exactly how I would use the bungee ("bungee" is what they call it in England, it's exactly the same aid). There was a comment you had made before which made me doubt whether it should go over the poll but here I see that it does. I have only tried it on Mualim twice, the second time was this afternoon. He puts his head down intermittently at this point, so let's see how it goes. Since I came back from the US, he has got much better on the lunge. It may be that he has either found his balance or just decided it's not worth misbehaving and life is easier when he cooperates. There is a big change in his behaviour also because it's been like a desert in England and the quality of the grass has gone down, so he has suddenly lost this awful fizz, and I am able to ride in a more relaxed way in the fields, which is great. Maybe, the better cooperation on the lunge is simply the consequence of heat! It's like Karakum desert out here - great for Mualim and awful for everyone else, sheep, cows and people.



5. Maria06/24/2006 19:43:28


By the way, what bit do you use on the youngsters? I have a French link "Happy Mouth" with full cheek. Never used it before but it's worked well with Mualim who has a very soft mouth (to make up for the lack of softness in every other department, physical or psychological!). I also bought a new conventional leather bridle which is very similar to Merdjen's bridle, after I got fed up with the endurance one which is too loose and floppy. Putting the bridle on is still a challenge with us, though Mualim is infinitely bribable, so I resort to liberal amounts of treats. It feels like a complete defeat but I am just hoping that one day the pleasant associations will prevail and he will just open his gob to take the bit, not to neigh at Spinney the pony or bite me or other animate or inanimate objects in his vicinity.



6. Jessica 06/25/2006 18:58:37


Jessica D. I have also realised that there seems to be very many hunter shows as well as hunter people here in Florida. So far, no one that have seen our Tekes, moving and under rider have said that they would not work out in the hunter ring. Encouraging enough for me, I am a hunter "blueberry" but I am lucky enough to having myself andf my horses in the safe hands of hunter pros.
Let me know when you start looking for your Teke, it would be great if you could show your own horse in the Sunshine Teke Show!



7. Jessica06/25/2006 19:16:05


Maria. Great to hear that Mualim is improving. Being consistant in training pays off! Soon you will be out showing .
Now I have nice catalogue with horse tack so I know what horsey stuff is called in English. Let's see if you understand, I use heavy weight, loose ring, snaffle bits by default on my horses, some of them prefer French mouth bits. Tekes have smaller mouths than the average horses of their size, their noses are supposed to fit in a wine glass, therefore I am careful to not use to thick bits.
For horses that are very "mouthy", like to have a lot of things in their mouths, I have a home made solution with a chain that I attach to the bit, it works very well for some of the horses. For a hot, strong horse that has had a few years of education I have found the Pessoa bit very effective, it's called Pessoa in Sweden but I saw in the tack catalogue they call it European elevator here.



8. Jessica D.06/25/2006 19:42:22


Jessica, Im familiar with all those bits. When you are ready to take a Teke in the Hunter ring, just make sure that the bit you choose is not an "unconventional bit" for hunters...I school my pony in a hackamore because he has a low palette and he likes it, but it would be considered unconventional and I can't show in it...So I will use a Waterford...or Ball-bit...it's a chain of round balls connected together that breaks in 3 - 4 places...it works really well for horses with low pallettes and also for horses that tend to hang on or pull on the bits...it breaks up so they cant do that...anyways...Im not sure the pessoa is legal for hunters...just wanted to throw that out there for you so you would know...since you are new to the sport.

And I also think it would be really cool to be able to ride my own Teke in the show! Im really looking forward to it regardless of whether I have my own or not! I think it will be BIG fun! and told my hubby we HAVE to go...he rides too so maybe he will get to show also...who knows. I will definitly let you know when I am looking for a Teke...I'll want an expert's opinion on if I'm getting a good deal or not!

Oo...and just thought Id share.. --> this is my pony http://www.geocities.com/zoehesed/Myhorse.html



9. maria06/27/2006 17:31:22


Right, ladies, let's talk tack! Here is a page full of loose-ring snaffles. http://www.derbyhouse.co.uk/ProductList.aspx?CategoryID=Loose&Page=3&language=en-GB And the one I use on Mualim is here: http://www.derbyhouse.co.uk/ProductDetails.aspx?language=en-GB&ProductID=3140026&CategoryID=Nathe What a linguistic merry-go-round! I had a proper lesson on a perfectly behaved Mualim on Sunday. Transitions walk to trot, changing rising diagonals often to encourage natural balance, turning the horse without using my arms ("imagine he has no head or neck", well, yes, his neck isn't very long for a good Teke but what can we do now?), lifting my knees alternately to my chin to make Mualim move sideways and various other complicated things to do with where my seat bones go which I must say, goes mostly over my head. Mualim was complimented on being less nippy (not biting people quite so much any more). The catch-phrase of the day was: "You are training his mind, not his legs; where the legs go he will work out for himself".



10. Maria10/01/2006 13:47:42


To revive the training and raising discussion, we are faced with a funny problem: at the age of three, a young stallion has - 1) a lot of energy 2) a big appetite 3) must not be overworked in the sand school to avoid stress on the joints 4) not in racing training 5) on our steep farm, if turned out in a big 45-degree-slope field, the horse is prone to gallop like mad and do "hand-brake turns", yet, because he goes out by himself, hasn't got company to play with, so either eats or indulges in short, dangerous galloping -

the result is a fat Akhal-Teke pig.

Sending Jessica some photos as a prove of this sad state of affairs



11. Kerri-Jo Stewart01/31/2007 22:58:27
Homepage: http://Akhal-Teke.ca


Thanks for putting this page in the blog carnival! I am just starting with bits and already found out that the "nice" wide loose-ring snaffle is too big for Darginka's mouth as she can't close it! I am going to try to get one that as well as being thinner is jointed with a bar in the middle so the bit doesn't "break in half" in her mouth. Maybe that would be better as Darginka really hates the bit so far. I am thinking that maybe I'll use something other than a bit for training or is it really important to start in a bit? She is going really well otherwise, until you put that bit in her mouth!!

Suggestions are appreciated! Thanks!!



12. Jessica02/01/2007 08:12:00


Kerri, the thick bit is not really nice to a horse with a small mouth. I use the bridong (14mm) or one size thicker 16mm bits loose ring snaffle bits. What do you mean when you say that Darginka does not like the bit?



1. maria09/19/2005 18:52:15


Jessica, we went to see a training session of Lipizanners in Vienna. I kept thinking - they are so EASY to keep as stallions. Well, that wasn't the only impression. They are easy because they are started at four and until that age they live in herds of many males, so the hierarchy is established before the humans come into the scene. But then someone told me that the training methods used are so harsh and that's why they look so obedient. It certainly doesn't look that way - the classical school looks so harmonious and they emphasise in the booklet how the rider has to adapt every day to the mood of the horse and often has to change his intentions to follow the horse's cues. What do you think? Do you know much about the training methods of the Spanish Riding School in Vienna?



2. Jessica09/20/2005 13:11:48


Maria,
Well, the art of riding and training have been discussed since we began using the horse as a riding animal. The Spanish Riding School, Cadre Noir etc are more or less still training their horses in accordance with Guerniéres principles (Ecole de Cavalerie) that by systematical education create a calm, worked through and obedient with comfortable movements. Is this system is good for hunting and show jumping Caprilli didn't think so.
Like with all ideologies they always sound good in printing but do not always work good in reality. I think that an art or method for riding that is suitable only for one type of horse is not that worked though. I think that the Eastern European/Asian/kossack light, free riding style more towards Caprilli type of training is better for the horse and defenitely works better for the Tekes. I would agree with Littauer though, that the classical art of riding is worth saving as it is beautiful to watch but that the system is not applicable for modern sports and riding.
You had the opportunity to see well trained horses educated under full time empoyed professional riders and of course you enjoyed it. But to cite Chamberlain "collection under a bad rider is like a razor in the hands of a monkey".



3. maria09/20/2005 18:48:19


Gosh, that's a lot of names! and lots of food for thought.

The thing is, they didn't seem to look unnatural in their collection. They were being ridden in snaffle bits, single bridle, and didn't look "strapped up".

In fact, I am sure you remember the MOST STRAPPED UP dressage horse any of us had ever seen - in that stable in Luxembourg. Remember that man on a big warmblood who held it's poor head in so tight, the horse could barely move it's shouders?

I remember one lesson I had with a very good rider here, she rides at the British National level. She walked in and told me to collect Altai. He, as usual, said "No" and I said "Well, it takes a bit of persuasion with him" and she said "He HAS TO" and came over and held the reins from the ground and made him look down and walked like this with us the whole lesson. Needless to say, I never had another lesson but I still admire her riding.



4. Debbie01/17/2006 00:33:43


For Maria, at the beginning of this thread: on the training methods used for Lipizzans. There is a book written years ago, maybe 15 or 20 years, called "My Flying White Horses". I forget the author but he at one time was in charge of a school for Lipizzans. He personally used gentle methods but was aware of other schools that used harsh methods and of course he deplored this; he said horses trained that way lose their joy in performing, but his horses retained it to an advanced age. He said it was customary to give the horse a lump of sugar at the end of a session, and if it did not like the way it had been treated it would refuse the sugar!



5. Debbie01/17/2006 00:37:47


P.S.: in his school it was considered a terrible rebuke if a horse refused your sugar!



1. Maria10/21/2006 05:01:22


I am not sure how the word "plemennoi" got to be translated as "tribal" - but it sounds quite comical in English. I expect the correct translation for "plemennaia deiatel'nost'" (if that's what it is in Russian) is "breeding history".



2. Blanca10/21/2006 05:45:51


My request was sent to N. Abramova by Nadya one week ago, I guess together with yours.

No reply yet.



3. shael10/21/2006 07:25:22
Homepage: http://shael-teke.ru


"Sire's history"
"Stud career"



4. Blanca10/23/2006 08:04:38


The reply for me came today.

I have been instructed what I need to send in order to get a duplicate of my mare's passport and I need to pay €80.

I have asked Nadezhda how to pay.



5. Jessica10/24/2006 07:41:40


Blanca,
It must be great that after four years have some progress with the paperwork for your mare! Had you already sent the DNA etc four years ago? Keep us updated on the progress, I am still working on increasing my passion level in order to continue my registration procedures with MAAK.



6. Blanca10/25/2006 05:07:17


Jessica, yes, Maak has already the DNA.

The whole problem was that the mare was exported to Europe under a name which was not hers and now I want to have in the passport her original name.

This is what I asked for 4 years ago.

A couple of days ago Nadya (Akhalt-Service) was kind enough to send me an e-mail informing me that the way to pay the 80 Euros to Maak was through Western Union.

It is nice to have the assistance of Nadya. What I wonder is what would have happened without her...that's a bit discouraging.

By the way, is there anybody interested in a shipment of Studbooks? I have been told that they could send 3 or 4...



7. Darya10/25/2006 06:01:35
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com


Hi Blanca,

I am most interested in getting copies of studbooks. Could you kindly write the details of that to my e-mail: info@avatstud.com

Thank you,

Darya



8. Jessica10/25/2006 09:19:44


Blanca, over the years there have been many helping hands involved in the registration of Tekes from the west, we have ourselves carried photos, DNA etc for other horse owners and others have been doing the same for us. However, I do not think that this "charity" system is acceptable to keep a dysfunctional organisation running.
We are dealing with a state financed organisation that has been given the mission to register and keep records of all pure bred and part bred Tekes in the world. If they, now more than 15 years after the perestroyika cannot perform their basic mission and thereby loose far to many Tekes that should be registered, as well as publish false or no statistical facts about the breed to the breeding community (our only way to audit their work).
No, I do not think this breed should have to depend on charity from people that will be in the position to help out at the same time as they are given an unfair opportunity to sell and promote their products on the international market.
I personally do not feel comfortable about having to manage my communication with the international registry via a spokesperson for a breeder who has, on several occassions, used my blog for derogative, not specified, comments on our breedings as being of no Akhal-Teke type.
I do not care much for her opinion that I guess she shares with the breeder she works for, but she has used my blog to insult not only mine but also Todd's work as well as the Russian judges that gave both these horses elite class.
The fact that a state run authority chooses to work with a person with such lack of integrity and such obvious intentions with her charity again verify my suspicions that the only organisation for registering pure bred Tekes is corrupt and not efficient.
We should all ask ourselves, why do MAAK/VNIIK personell reply to her emails and not to our communication?



9. Blanca10/25/2006 10:44:43


Jessica, this is what I meant in my previous message.

I have always had to deal with Maak through third persons. Otherwise, it doesn't work.



10. Jessica 10/25/2006 12:12:28


Ok Blanca, let's agree on agreeing



11. Nadja10/25/2006 16:21:08
Homepage: http://www.akhalt-service.ru/


Jessica.
You have again turned all « from legs on a head ». I have already explained to you twice, that I am not employee MAAK or VNIIK. But me, as well as other Russian it is easier to call in institute or on mobile Abramova or Ryabova and to transfer the request for documents. Any person who wants, can make it. And you also. And your Russian friends can make it. That to you prevented to call for last 4 years in VNIIK and to speak about documents, registration, etc. That to you prevented to arrive to Europe (France, Czechia, Germany) and to solve problems with Ryabova, when she was in Europe. You can adjust the SPAM – FILTER, and you were reached with official e-mail.
Question in what you want. Truths and cleanliness of registration or authority in AT breed. In the blogs you have never named people in Europe or America, which see as a management or assistants MAAK. While from you only demagogy.
There are people in Germany and other countries, which collect the information for MAAK. There are contracts with the countries (France, Czechia) about mutual aid and cooperation. MAAK works as the organization, documents are done, horses are registered.
You can respond somehow about me. To think everything of my chief. This your personal opinion and your right. As well as my personal opinion and my right to make the opinion on you and on your work. And to state it. And only your acts can change it. You can write articles, that Russian handed over horses on massacre, though it was in Turkmenistan in studfarm Komsomol. And only there. And not under the initiative of Russian. You can create your horses, your type and anybody of it will not forbid to you. You even can issue catalogues 10 studbook in English. And again to tell, that it is your labour, your work. You can demand, that you conducted studbook and that it was in your hands. This your personal right. And in general you can live how you want.
Only time and opinion of people will show, who was right.
And I once again ask to not identify me with MAAK and VNIIK. And precisely to understand border of official cooperation with MAAK and the personal help or personal opinion. Now I speak for myself. I think - it enough.
Also it is amusing to me to read about my chief. How you refer to him. I know that with my arrival to Akhalt-service, much has changed in the best party. As well as quality new foals. And my chief has much got and has lost nothing.
And your statement:
© No, I do not think this breed should have to depend on charity from people that will be in the position to help out at the same time as they are given an unfair opportunity to sell and promote their products on the international market. ©
Concerns also you in the same degree, as well as me, as well as any owner or breeder.
To you have already written, that if want to register horses - please. Register. If want to be engaged demagogy is too your right.



12. Blanca10/26/2006 04:32:58


Nadya, I want to clarify that I speak Russian.

My e-mails to Abramova 4 years ago were in this language. I have tried to call to Ryazan on the phone thousand times and doesn't work. I don't have any private mobile number of any official of Maak. I rather have tried to use the official channels. And they don't work.

Sure, for many people, it's a problem of language. And aparently it's a problem of means of communication (phones, PCs, etc). But above all, we need people who feel responsible enough about the owners/breeders so that if there are changes (in phone numbers, etc) that should be known by everybody, and not only by the big breeders or closest friends.

I'm not aware of the situation in the Czech Republic (I really need to go to visit the ATs there) but concerning France, the "cooperation agreement" between them and Maak has been and extremely brilliant operation to link the management of the studbook and, in general, the breed, to a very serious and competent organisation like the Haras nationaux, and, at the same time, getting rid of the Russian rule.

Truth, that costs money to the French association. Maak is not going to let the French go without asking money in exchange. That's fine because although this costs money to Akhal Teke France, now they are in a safe place, having a serious studbook under the Haras Nationaux and having (in the future) their own judges but at the same time, still counting on the Russian expertise to train their judges.



13. Nadja10/27/2006 11:38:35
Homepage: http://www.akhalt-service.ru/


Hello, Blanca.
At me too problems to call in VNIIK. Usually I call through special service. I do there the order and they call in VNIIK, and then connect me. It is more expensive, but it works.
The situation with e-mail could be solved only privately. Now Abramova has e-mail and receives a mail on it. Now it too works.
I hope, that so will work and is farther.



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