Here is the letter, below the letter my comments.
1. me12/18/2006 08:52:55 AM
The production of the Pontecorvo Stud in the United States has been quite successful.
Is producing rescue horses a sign of success?
Giving away horses close to death, or even dying on the truck leaving the "Successful" Pontecorvo Stud...
I guess success is measured in different ways....
2. Blanca12/18/2006 08:58:14 AM
Why this letter now? is there any reason?
3. shael12/18/2006 08:59:54 AM
Jessica, never mind. We must do our job.
4. Todd Keith12/18/2006 10:06:51 AM
New Tito worshiper recruits! They are working to promote the new Pontecorvo Trust.
It is hard to not react....
5. maria12/18/2006 10:09:41 AM
You don't believe Tatiana had written the letter, do you???
6. Allegra Steck12/18/2006 10:12:14 AM
I was told by Natasha that the quote regarding Helm was not written by Tatyana, but by Helm's trainer (owner ?).
7. maria12/18/2006 10:25:08 AM
Allegra, what about the rest of the letter? It doesn't sound like Tatiana's style to me. Is there a Russian version?
8. maria12/18/2006 10:26:24 AM
I have translated a few writing by Tatiana, she has a very distinct style in Russian, I don't recognise it in this letter.
9. maria12/18/2006 10:28:16 AM
or it could just be a bad translation
10. Jessica12/18/2006 11:06:59 AM
Blanca, the reason for this letter being sent out now is obviously the Pontecorvos has cashed in on their so called rescue sale last spring and now are ready to promote themselves again, having culled out most of their starvation victims to Teke newbies in the USA that doesn't know better. Fortunately few Teke breeders are cruel enough to pull off such a scam again.
Leonid, part of my job, and obligation, as a breeder and professional in the horse business is to prevent scam, fraud and abuse of people and horses in our business. My job is prohibited and destroyed by the actions of the so called International Akhal-Teke Breeders Association, in my world, the real horse world, the professionals quickly dismiss the MAAK as obscure and not valid the amateurs are fooled into making the wrong decisions in making big investments in our breed. So were do I go for an objective evaluation of my horses that I, like breeders in all parts of the world are depending on for the development of the breeding program and business. Unfortunately part of my job with the heavenly breed has become to work for higher standards within this breed.
Maria, the letter was presented as a translation of a Russian letter written by Tatyana Ryabova. It was sent out to editors of newspapers and magazines, national as well as international among others. Of course professionals in the media world will see through the language and also run into problems with verifications of the claims that are made. I am like you, surprised to see a letter like this being written by Tatyana Ryabova but this is the information I, the media and other people in the Teke community has received. Embarrassing to say the least.
11. Sigrid12/18/2006 11:40:43 AM
Another fault in this strange letter. The mentioned elite mares Ataka (died in Germany in 2000) and Galateya (she lives in Switzerland for years) were NOT imported to the US.
A shame that in the name of the manager of the breed was spread such a primitive advertising for one studfarm.
12. Allegra Steck12/18/2006 12:42:53 PM
No, I have to say it does not sound like Tatyana's verbage to be so...glowing, although some of it does sound succinct and to the point like she usually is. I have always found her to be very sparse in her praise and never effusive. Unless the original written article is procured, we will never know if the interpreter might have taken a liberty or two.
13. Hans-Jurg Buss12/18/2006 01:05:39 PM
We all may speculate ... personally I do not think that Mrs. Ryabova has written this letter (language, culture, purpose of letter speaks against that). But the easiest and normal way would be to ask Mrs. Ryabova directly .... And in a normal world she would clarify immediately by herself when somebody publishes letters in her name she has not written or given consent for. ... in a normal world.
14. maria12/18/2006 01:14:11 PM
All, I will put a bet on Mualim's pink nose that the letter was NOT written by Tatiana. I have read loads of her articles in AT Inform in the last couple of years - the full Russian versions, rather than the succinct translations at the end of them - and they sound really different. In particular, she is in the habit these days of writing about her Teke travels, eg both trips to France have articles on them, a trip to Benelux. I will eat my words if I am wrong - will try to contact Abramova or Kuznetsova this Thursday and ask.
15. Jessica12/18/2006 02:04:02 PM
I would say it is quite daring to send out a promotion letter for your stud farm to the Teke community, the general public and the media claiming that it has been written by the studbook manager if it is not.
If the Russian signed original as well as a confirmation by the author cannot be presented, I would be the first one to help communicate the facts in this matter.
Maria, it would be great if you can take some time on Thursday to check this up if we haven't heard anything by then.
16. Blanca12/18/2006 04:02:04 PM
It woud be good if Maria could check...I was reading the leter again and found amazing statements...I■m not sure the Kazakh breeders would be very happy if they read that "the leading countries in the breeding of Akhal Teke horses were Turkmenia, Russia and ...Germany..."
17. Blanca12/18/2006 04:04:00 PM
By the way, and changing subject,have you seen the Maak plans for the development of the breed until 2010?
18. Todd Keith12/18/2006 04:31:19 PM
19. Blanca12/18/2006 04:46:18 PM
Todd, Leonid has the article in his web. There is a sum up -in French, which makes my life easier- in the annual newsletter of the French AT Association.
Tomorrow I will try to post the main highlights
20. shael12/18/2006 05:22:13 PM
21. Todd Keith12/18/2006 05:39:38 PM
Thank you Leonid & Blanca.
Do you have the original document from VNIIK?
This would be interesting reading.
I babelfished Leonid's article. Not the best translation, of course, but I understand most of it....
22. maria12/18/2006 05:57:13 PM
Where do we get to see the original? The one on Leonid's site is "A view from the side" - a response to the Plan and is very funny!
23. Darya12/18/2006 06:19:21 PM
I am sure this is not Tatyana's letter.. What is the world coming to? How does one maintain credibility when there are people capable of doing this are around?
24. Dasha Cole12/19/2006 05:52:01 PM
Hello dear Friends,
The work of Dr. Tatyana Ryabova was published in "Konevodstvo i Sport" magazine in March of 2006 in Russia. I thought it could be interesting for all of us to know more about the lines and the work which was done by Tito Pontecorvo and Natasha Pontecorvo in Russia and in the US.
The original could be found in "Konevodstvo i Sport" copy or if you are interested I can fax it to you. Write me e-mail and I will send it over. firstname.lastname@example.org
I will only fax it to those who have friendly intentions and willing to learn rather than speculate.
As to friendly comments towards Tito I will stay neutral at this point. It is obvious, that he is, as a breeder is well known and respected. His illness in spring can not cross out the years of his work and dedication to the breed.
We all know that there are best sports stallions offered for breeding this season, many of these stallions has changed hands such as Dolomit came to us in Sarasota, Florida, Munir is standing at Allegra`s - these are the stallions from Aksakal line "please look at the article", Grom and Murmansk is at April`s, Flora has beautiful stallions.
Aad by the way may be available for the limited breeding since he is an older stallion.
Arim for those dreaming of Akhal Teke dressage prospect and Kogan with Grand Prix jumping ability.
I honestly do not know about other stallions in America so if owners will send me their information I will try to track their linage and learn more about them.
So, I think thinks are looking more and more promising for the next year foals. I am sure Tito and Natasha would try to share the knowledge that they have to help you to connect your mare with the right stallion. That’s all to that.
Back yard breeding programs and experiments I think are encouraging but I think it takes global vision, cultural background and experience to be able to consult on breeding and creating new Akhal Tekes.
Enormous work was done by Tito on different lines in order to receive Akhal Teke horse which is suitable and competitive for different applications in American traditional sports.
Helm remarks are coming under the * if it has not been deleted from my original translation and is valuable reference by Helm`s owner to connect Akhal Teke breed to today`s dressage in America. They are not part of the published article and that’s why it appears under ** .
If you have questions please write me. I am also working on another research on lines and will be able to bring some up to date information which will be available for soon on the Internet.
My Best Regards.
P.S. I will provide you with contact information for Dr.Ryabova later for all the questions and concerns.
25. Dasha Cole12/19/2006 07:47:06 PM
THE NAME OF HELM'S TRAINER: REINHARD DORSCH
HIS WEBSITE: WWW.CLASSICDRESSAGETRAINING.COM
THE OWNER OF HELM IS: WILLIAM ASKINS
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT HELM: 1-830-438-75-17 FAX WILLIAM ASKINS
DR.T.RYABOVA IS AVAILABLE BY CELL PHONE: 7-910-903-74-07
ADDRESS: TATYANA N. RYABOVA
INSTITUTE KONEVODSTVA /VNIIK/
RYAZANSKAYA OBLAST' 391105
TO ORDER THE MAGAZINE FROM RUSSIA CONTACT
JULIA KYZNETSOVA BY PHONE: 7-495-976-10-03
26. shael12/20/2006 02:04:14 AM
It is wonderfull. If breeder has fanclub, it means a lot.
27. Darya12/20/2006 04:21:40 AM
Very dedicated fanclub indeed. It very much confuses me though, cos I would think that someone like T Ryabova should stay pretty neutral...
28. maria12/20/2006 08:27:29 AM
Dasha, is Konevodstvo i Sport available online by any chance? I can't find it, I am afraid. Any chance you could scan the original article and send it to me at email@example.com? I haven't got a fax.
By nostalgic coincidence, I used to read Konevodstvo i Sport as a little girl in the 1970s and the walls of my bedroom were plastered with cuttings from it, so I consider myself a deserved potential recipient of the aricle
29. Dasha12/20/2006 09:06:19 AM
I will do that but it should it take a little time, OK? We are making arrangements for our stallion to go to stand at the large farm and we are running around pretty fast now.
Are you standing your stallion for this year?
He is very pretty.
Also I will be working on the translation of another article
"S Pesney po Amerike" of Dr.Ryabova where Dr. writes about many Akhal Teke breeders in America. It`s old article from 1999 but I consider any information is worth while reading.
Also the translation of Letter will be coming soon.
30. Blanca12/20/2006 09:22:18 AM
I start thinking like Leonid..."never mind, we must do our job"...
31. Allegra Steck12/20/2006 10:33:14 AM
It is not Munir who is here with me but his son Maruk. I believe Munir is dead if I am not mistaken.
32. Jessica12/20/2006 03:18:08 PM
Well Leonid and Blanca of course you are right, if you have good enough horses you really do not need the Ministry of Corruption, the Self Proclaimed Celeb or the Instant Expert to do your marketing.
Allegra, Munir might be dead or "herding sheep in the mountains", you never know!
33. Jessica12/20/2006 03:46:24 PM
Konevodstvo did a Teke special issue in 1988 ISSN 0023-3285.
Quite a few interesting articles. I have it translated into Swedish so that will not be of much help. It is a nice magazine to have though, some great pictures to. I do not know if you would be able to get hold of one copy somehow. A lot of translation work.
Sabine Toepfer-Gebert also did German translations of many Konevostdvo Teke articles I think beginning from before the 50's. You might be able to get a copy of the German translations from her. I am a little bit disappointed in the last article though as I have not before seen editorial material containing such obvious errors. The magazine must be, or at least was an institution in the Russian Equestrian world. However I would really appreciate your translation and read it again.
34. maria12/20/2006 04:11:39 PM
Dasha, I am not standing Mualim at stud in the forseeable future. He has to earn "his ladies" by perfecting his less-than-perfect manners on the ground first and obtaining a few dressage points. I expect this to take several years, until then he has to stay celibate It's nice to hear you think he is pretty, however, in his behaviour he merits praise for bravery more than for being a gentleman: na pole bitvy - ofitser s shashkoi, a na balu damam na nozhki nastupaet. Look forward to the article.
35. Dasha12/20/2006 07:57:04 PM
I am sorry for Maruk mistake, I was looking at the pictures of Aksakal line and Munir was inprinted in my memory. Are you standing Munir this year?
36. Dasha12/20/2006 09:09:17 PM
I will be very soft in my comments to today’s happening. Jessica has copied my private e-mail list of friends and partners which she has received with my translation of article of Dr.Ryabova. She, then has sent them the article which promotes controversy between Russia and America. She has also called the list “Akhal Teke Fan Club”. Not only has this article clearly demonstrated “the evil Russians who killed Akhal Teke horses” it also backfires all the attempts which were done by many state departments to promote piece and cooperation between Russia and America. I worked as Interpreter for State Department of Education and spent six years interpreting for the cultural program which brings the piece between America and Russia through education of Russian business owners and business exchange. I wish Jessica after immigrating to America will support the piece and intentions of this country to avoid the confusion and misunderstandings. Being a citizen of America and loyal supporter of friendship between Russia and America I can not translate such an article which clearly demonstrates not only the lack of historical knowledge of Swedish foreign national but also try to complicate the political situation on the level of cultural communications between the countries. Some people who has received Jessica`s e-mail were extremely upset that Akhal Teke horses were brought in as a tool to expose Russia and Russians in such a negative setting. I hope Jessica and Todd understand that any publicity which involves political issues bring more controversy and provide negative publicity to the Russian breed of horses and Russian people. Please do not steal my e-mail list anymore!
37. Dasha12/20/2006 09:11:58 PM
I'm happy to "meet" with this new group of Teke enthusiasts. My name is Jessica Eile Keith and with more than 15 years with the heavenly breed I'm still an enthusiast. Me and my husband Todd introduced the golden horses to Sweden more than 15 years ago and in 2005 we relocated our stud farm to sunny Florida and actually by doing so we introduced the sacred horses to Florida!
Those of you who live in Florida are more than welcome to visit our Tekes. They love people and attention. For the real interested we also have a great archive with facts and pictures about this breed. Until you have time to come by, check our web site at http://www.karakumstud.com
We are also happy to announce that we are able to sponsor the dream about the golden horse about having our breed champion Rosanna as cover girl and color model for the brand new release of the Breyer Akhal-Teke model. Here is the Breyer cover picture taken by the famous equestrian photographer Dwayne Snyder.
Dascha, as you are such a great translator maybe you can translate the saga about Rosanna to Russian and send it back to Konevodsto Sport and to the MAAK in Russian, I think they would be interested to read about the breed's successes in the USA. That would be a neat exchange of news!
Here is an article that was published on Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty's web site in September, a longer interview with me and my husband was broadcasted over Central Asia and Russia. It would be fun to find out if anyone in this Teke enthusiast group listened to it!
The article can be found at:
Turkmenistan: Legendary Horses Look To Make Comeback
By Julie A. Corwin
A purebred Ahal-Tekes horse
Horse fanciers in the former Soviet Union have long known about the beauty, speed, and stamina of the Ahal-Teke breed native to Turkmenistan. But despite attempts to spread the word about this breed, the Ahal-Teke remains obscure to most of the rest of the world. A small community in the United States is trying to spread interest across the Atlantic Ocean. But the cause of the horse was dealt a major blow when one of the most talented Ahal-Teke breeders in the world, Geldy Kyarizov, was imprisoned by Turkmen officials in 2002. Today, some of the world's best Ahal-Tekes farms are located not in Turkmenistan but in Russia.
WASHINGTON, 22 September 2006 (RFE/RL) -- Some experts will tell you the Ahal-Teke is the oldest horse breed in the world.
These tall, elegant animals reportedly caught the attention of early explorers -- like Marco Polo and Alexander the Great -- for their ability to cover long distances in the desert with little water.
Nearly a century and a half after their slaughter at Russian hands -- and following more than half a century of the erratic consequences of Soviet policies -- the future of the vaunted Ahal-Tekes looks like it could be decided not in its ancestral home in Turkmenistan, but in Russia.
Struggle To Survive
But the Ahal-Tekes have not survived without a struggle.
The Teke tribe, a nomadic people who lived around an isolated oasis in southern Turkmenistan, preserved the horse over the centuries by refusing to allow it to be crossbred.
But when the horse's guardians, the Teke, came under siege in the 19th century, so did the horses.
In the 1870s, the Teke tribe had been successfully resisting the advance of the Russian imperial army in part because of their speedy horses.
Jessica Eile-Keith is an Ahal-Teke breeder based in Florida. She describes what the Russian army decided to do once they came.
"The Russian Army knew the Tekes were difficult to get because of their horses," she said. "So they said, 'If we kill the horses, the Teke won't survive.' And they slaughtered a lot of horses, and after that the breed almost disappeared."
Almost two decades later, the Russians came to the horses' rescue. In 1897, they established a stud farm. And in the late 1920s, Russian scientists began the stud book for the breed that is still used today. Only horses whose parents are registered in the book can be considered Ahal-Teke.
During the Soviet era, the Ahal-Tekes' fortunes waxed and waned. The horses suffered during the collectivization of agriculture under the Soviets. Some Turkmen owners let them run loose in the desert rather than allow them to become part of big collective farms.
Later, the breed was considered prestigious enough for Marshall Georgii Zhukov to ride in a Moscow victory parade after World War II.
But during the era of Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, Eile-Keith says the horses faced a new assault from five- and 10-year economic plans.
"Ahal-Tekes ended up in the slaughterhouse -- like many other good horses -- to fill up the meat quota," she said.
The current period should offer a respite for the Ahal-Teke.
After all, Turkmen President Sapurmurat Niyazov is reportedly a member of the Teke tribe and considers himself a promoter of the breed. He has been giving them as gifts to world leaders at a furious pace, and spent an estimated $25 million to construct an equestrian center.The entrance to President Niyazov's stables in Ashgabat
But with some 1,000 purebred Ahal-Tekes born each year -- compared to more than 100,000 English thoroughbreds -- the Ahal-Teke arguably needs talented breeders more than publicity and nice stables.
And Eile-Keith would argue that horse breeding is one of the rare professions that involves as much art and passion as science.
"We have today three big names in Ahal-Teke breeding -- [in Stavropol] Aleksandr Klimuk; and we have an upcoming big breeder in the Moscow area, a Daghestani man called Leonid Babaev," she said. "In Turkmenistan, there was the former [head of the state association of horse farms, Turkmenatlar], Geldy Kyarizov, who breeds magnificent Ahal-Teke horses. And he is not breeding horses today due to 'problems.'"
Kyarizov was head of the Turkmenatlar horse farms in 2002 when he was arrested by the Turkmen secret police and sentenced to six years in jail for negligence and abuse of authority. Amnesty International notes that there are allegations that the charges against him were fabricated, and that the true reason for targeting him was that he fell out of favor with President Niyazov.
Water for the farm where about 90 of Kyarizov's horses are living was disconnected this July. The farm is the birthplace of Yanardag (Volcano), one of Kyarizov's champion Ahal-Teke stallions whose profile graces the national emblem of Turkmenistan.
Eile-Keith says that now the best Ahal-Teke breeders in the world are in Russia. And, the best stud farm is located in Stavropol Krai.
Eile-Keith and her husband, Todd Keith, are raising Ahal-Tekes on their small farm in Florida. While the hot but wet Florida weather is quite a bit different from the dry climate of the Karakum Desert, she says her Ahal-Tekes seem to like it.
They are moving slowly, introducing the breed to the multibillion-dollar, horse-racing industry of Kentucky. Earlier this month, a brown colt sold for more than $8 million in a yearling thoroughbred sale. Ahal-Tekes typically fetch much lower prices -- starting at about $15,000 to $20,000.
Will the Ahal-Tekes ever be valued as highly as English thoroughbreds? Eile-Keith says the current stock of Ahal-Tekes needs to be improved so that they look "like they did when they were in top demand a few hundred years ago."
"That [work] is being done foremost in Russia today to try to recreate the breed to its former greatness. And [today's]...horse market is very competitive. There are very many attractive breeds bred by very, very skillful Western breeders. And if you introduce a new breed, that breed must be high quality horses for these people to even look at them."
So, nearly a century and a half after their slaughter at Russian hands -- and following more than half a century of the erratic consequences of Soviet policies -- the future of the vaunted Ahal-Tekes looks like it could be decided not in its ancestral home in Turkmenistan, but in Russia.
38. maria12/21/2006 03:34:42 AM
Dasha, the article above surely demonstrates that Jessica holds many Russian breeders in high regard, doesn't it? Besides, she and Todd have been to CIS, have many friends there and organised trips for Swedish people to Russia, so why do you say they are jeopardising Russian-American relations? Anyway, if we take Russian-American relations at governmental levels, I sometimes wouldn't mind jeopardising one or two... But that's my own personal position, unrelated to the owners of the blog.
39. Darya12/21/2006 04:56:13 AM
I always found it fascinating, how old military tactics and tricks can be so brutal, but so effective and clever. They are very hard to look at by modern human's eyes though. I find it easier to look at them imagining them as a game of toy soldiers, than one can see how clever they are. One should not look just at the actions, but also at the conditions and the reasons and remember that the thinking was different at different points in history. Russia was always in a difficult position between east and west and had to always protect its borders by whatever means. Some places were easier to conquer and convert, than trying to constantly withstand hectic attacks. I do agree that the article portreys Russian nation in general (not Russian AT breeders) as some brutal savages. What one should remember is that it was different time and everyone was different than, any other nation. Looking at facts like these throughout all the history is encouraging in a way as we can clearly see the change for the better. But it is sad to still see so many conflicts and slayings around the world. The way I normally look at that is it is natural protection from overpopulation. Cruel as it is, a part of complicated and clever mechanism of survival. At those times human life was not of much value, not to say of some horses, no matter how "heavenly".
I hope I didn't confuse anyone, just my reflections on the subject.
Peace and love to all,
40. Jessica12/21/2006 08:03:04 AM
I did reply to an email, (I did not steal a sendlist) sent to me by Dascha Cole with an article written by T. Ryabova, as I figured the article was sent out to people interested in the Teke breed I sent another article that was not written by me but by a reporter from Radio Free Europe, if you are interested in what Radio Free Europe stands for and who is their biggest supporter, you can go to their web site and read more. I also attached some very good news for the breed, the fact that Breyer is releasing an Akhal-Teke model horse, I guess for many that is great news, also the fact that the cover girl is in Florida for people to see in the flesh I would say is worth sharing. I am flattered that you and you famous and influential friends make me such a VIP in international politics! I come from a culture were democracy, freedom and free speech are sacred just like it is here in the USA. That is why I also participated in the interview by Radio Free Europe.
But today the best and biggest news is the fact that there is a change in the leadership in Turkmenistan and that might help the dire situation for Geldy Kiarizov.
41. Blanca12/21/2006 09:25:34 AM
Maria, I just want to say that I'm happy to see your approach about Mualim and breeding: bravo!
If many people were like you we would quickly increase the quality of the tekes here in the West
42. Maria12/21/2006 03:27:35 PM
Jessica and all, it is indeed fascinating to see what's going to happen in Turkmenistan now. If I was to throw a prediction out there, I would not expect a big change... Off to read Central Asian news now.
43. Blanca12/21/2006 04:23:22 PM
Hmm, it■s true, but we can always have miracles...look what happened in Kyrgyzstan, Ukraine, Georgia...although it■s true, in these countries the opposition was not anihilated
44. Jessica12/21/2006 04:33:13 PM
Maybe the power struggle will begin quite soon, Russia certainly has very strong interests to back someone that they can work with. I wonder for how long they will wait for things to settle.
45. Todd Keith12/21/2006 04:37:21 PM
The opposition parties (one in Moscow the other in Sweden) are both weighing their possibilities right now. Both have plans to head back to Ashgabat as soon as they deem it safe enough. They already lost Boris Shikmuradov and are being very cautious...
46. Blanca12/21/2006 04:53:50 PM
Yes, Todd, but that■s the problem...Niyazov managed to either kill, or send to prison, or kick the opposition out of the country. I■m afraid these people from Moscow or Sweden have lost their connection with the Turkmen society -if they ever had it-. . Turkmen people are too afraid of doing anything "out of the normality", and it will be difficult to change quickly the situation in the nearest future.
What I sincerely hope is that the new establishment will give an amnesty to those people like Geldy, or at least, release a bit the harsh conditions...
47. Jessica12/22/2006 12:11:54 AM
If you wanted to write back to my original e-mail with the translation of Dr.Ryabova you could of just wrote back to me. Indeed, you chose to steal, spam, copy or illegally distribute information to people who has not requested it from you. Nothing more to it.
You know better, don`t steal people`s e-mail lists.
Your speculation about the freedom of speech has no backing as well as the publication which was published based on your saying without verifying the facts. I will send your article for the evaluation to Akhal Teke community in Russia and be sure to publish the remarks. Your statements about Russian army killing Teke (Tribe?) are screaming out loud for verification and help. I can send some history books to you if needed.
I understand that you base your promotion campaign on negative publicity but why not have enough common sense and invite Tatyana to the US so please I don`t have to deal with comments of my dressage and Grand Prix jumper trainer that Paikhas who was bred by you has too short legs and too long body and can not be used in any of the sports on any higher level.
Jessica, stop using the breeding to satisfy your personal goals because I am as a rider and promoter of your offspring is hurt. In other defense Dolomit and Moira has been pronounced universally bred for jumping and dressage in any level I want to go. I paid for both of these horses 50% less than I had to pay for one of your horse I can do not much with.
I am sorry since I have no influence on my trainer who has trained for Olympic riders and Yale jumper team. My trainer has shown quite a bit and she actually don`t know much about Akhal Tekes. She tells me what she sees and I go from there. Jessica, maybe enough of breeding mistakes?
Let`s let your ego rest and produce real Akhal Tke horses which can be used in real sport and in real world. Maybe it is the time to reunite with other Akhal Teke breeders and get some really good horses on the ground? How about giving a call to Tito for a start and start being friendly to everyone else in America. I promise you I will buy your foal if Tito helps you breed one. We may even buy two for the art of it.
You are really good about raising the horses but not so good right now about matching the couples because offspring don`t come out right for serious sports. I am just being honest … that`s it.
Why don`t we do Tito breeding consultant and unite the rest of the efforts. Your promotional efforts are outstanding, but it`s hard to promote what you have now other than for the magazine pictures and toy`s models. Let`s get to the real world. Don`t get me too negative as I say if I unite Dolomit, Moira and Paikhas I will have a perfect horse to ride: Dolomit is perfectly beatiful, Moira is outstanding mover and Paikhas has great temper and workability but lacking the show qualites. There is always a space for the improvement it`s the matter of acknowledging it. As you were raised in democratic country I think you will understand me.
48. maria12/22/2006 06:40:32 AM
Dasha, it is a fact accepted by historians worldwide that the decline of Turkmen nomadic life was a consequence of annexation of Central Asian territories to the Russian Empire. It is also an accepted fact that the Russian Army Officers realised that a valuable genepool of ancient horse was about to disappear and set out to preserve it, creating the Zakaspiiskii Stud and the first studbook. It is AGAIN a well-known fact that the horses were sent to slaughter in the Soviet Turkmenistan, and that the film shown on the All-Russian TV in the mid-1980s led to the passing of the law prohibiting horse slaughter in Turkmenistan. The article just recounts well-known facts about the Akhal-Teke breed, accepted by breeders and non-equestrian historians alike. Radio Liberty is a radio-station well-known for its political stance, which was very pro-American and anti-Soviet prior to the fall of the USSR and has since then occupied a broadly center-right position. It is a good, established radio-station, one which I personally do not like very much for the reasons of my own, but in this article, there is absolutely nothing biased, untrue or unusual: it just recounts the well-known, well-established, well-accepted facts of Turkmen history.
49. maria12/22/2006 07:27:27 AM
Dasha, I would also like to challenge your comments about Paikhas and training. How long has Paikhas been in training? Has she been trained by an experienced rider? Unless she has, you cannot say that she is not suitable for dressage and jumping. The vast majority of Akhal-Teke who are physically sound, are capable of dressage, jumping and endurance to a *medium* level. They vary in temperament which will further affect their ability to jump or work on the flat. There is a very long way from "outstanding movements" displayed by a green horse (such as Moira) and achievements in dressage. Many "outstanding movers" NEVER achieve anything at all in competition for a vast variety of reasons: not the right horse-rider combination, soundness issues, workability doesn't match movements, training routine unsuitable for that individual horse which results in the shortening of stride etc etc etc. I only saw Paikhas once as a 2-year-old. She is a normal, sound, correct Teke and according to yourself, she has an easy-going temperament. She should easily be able to work to Medium in dressage (shoulder-in, renvers, travers, pirhouette in walk, extentions, basic flying changes), and jump 1m, given a competent rider. When she is able to do this, THEN and ONLY THEN can you tell whether she has the potential to go further.
50. Todd Keith12/22/2006 10:27:35 AM
Read up on your history. As Maria points out, these are well documented facts.
If you have secret email lists, use bcc in the future. "Reply to All" is built into most email clients today... Using bcc will prevent anyone emailing your secret recipients.
I think your translation shows how biased Tatyana is these days. We would rather use Leonid, Sasha and Geldy (who, according to your translation, did nothing for the breed until Tito showed up... HA!)
Negative publicity campaign??? Check out our KaraKum in the News section. Not too negative there...... and we've only just started.....
If you are so dissatisfied with Paikhas maybe you should consider selling her. She obviously doesn't fit into your sport or breeding goals. We are contacted all the time by people looking for Tekes. Might be able to help...
We have other mentors than you, obviously. Use Tito's advise as much as you want. We choose not to.
As for who's horses will do best in competition... well only competition will show this. See you in the arena!
51. maria12/22/2006 11:17:55 AM
I still am wondering what the original looks like. Sentences like
52. Jessica12/22/2006 11:44:30 AM
Dascha, the reaction to the features of the typical Teke from people with warmblood background is normal. This you will hear over and over again, you will get used to it. We nowadays take such comments from warmblood people as an indication on that we have typical Tekes. If you loose confidence and begin select for non typical traits in order to please the warmblood people I think you will loose much of what make the this breed so special for so many.
On the other hand you had very nice comments made about Paikhas from the race horse trainer and Bob in Ocala. Bob actually wanted to buy her from you. Paikhas is elite graded by some of the finest judges in this breed, if you after having owned her for more than a year find that you or your advisors do not share this evaluation I strongly recommend that you sell her.
I am a little bit concerned over the way you talk about her, that she will do nothing good for you. Even so I do hope you will continue feed her and not follow the advice of your current breed advisor Pontecorvos and put her on the death row.
I think that she, with the right rider has a great potential.
To keep a horse that you do not like and intend to not breed or ride is not good for the horse and Paikhas has a lovable character and has also always been loved.
Let me know and I can help you find her a home where she will be loved for being a Teke.
I have also recommended you as you are depending on various trainers and advisors for both riding and breeding that you will have to carefully balance the advice you get from different people and you need to educate your general horsemanship and riding skills as well as educate yourself on this breed.
I have a son of Moira, a result of Pontecorvo selection, that I will help find a good home for, he might be of interest for you. Pictures will soon be published on my blog.
53. Heather12/23/2006 11:20:08 AM
It is frustrating to watch personal squabbles become a detriment to promoting tekes in America - especially in Florida where there are a number of us located. Perhaps I should mind my own business, but there are two reasons I will speak out briefly on this issue - 1. I am a neutral observer. I do not own an AT, but am merely in the education stage at this point. I have been both to Jessica and Todd's and Dasha's homes to see their horses, and with ubiased eyes, as I did not know anything about Tito and his legacy at that point. 2. This is an international forum, and while it is easy to sit in the comfort of your home with your morning coffee and type away, it cannot be denied that making accusations here is making them to an enormous international crowd.
When I met Dolomit and Moira at Dasha's home in Florida, I will admit that I was impressed with Dolomit. He has very beautiful coloring, and that long lean and dry look that I have learned to associate with AT's. I cannot say too much for his movement, but it did not seem hindered in any way and with appropriate training and some recovery maybe he will complete very successfully. However, not knowing about Tito or their situation, I was immediately of the opinion that Moira was still at least 300 pounds under weight, and seemed to have some sensitivity in her feet and possible legs. I know that Dasha promotes Tito and his horses, and everyone has a right to their opinion, but this is where I am angered. Even while we are seeing claims of famous trainers predicting grand prix training for these two, I can tell you that Dasha's trainer told me herself that she had been utterly appalled and horrified by the situation for Tito's horses in Texas. She made the comment that Dolomit is not a good eater "perhaps because he had gotten used to having so little available." You would not need to be a horse expert to recognize that these horses were in deplorable conditions, and have LOT of recovery ahead of them. It is wonderful that people have taken on the challenge of their recuperation, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. And most of all, I do not want to see these horses further injured by being pushed into training programs before they are able to sustain the load to their skeletal frames and mental/emotional health.
As to Paikhas, whom I also met - she was a very sweet girl with a wonderful seeming temperament. She was also however, under worked seeming to me, having put on a little girlie curve from her grazing and grains, without a lot of apparent lunge time or exercise.
Dasha, you are lucky to obviously have the money to support your horse goals, but this abuse of Todd and Jessica on their own blog AND the attempt to either misread or misrepresent history as presented by Jessica (who is an excellent historian) is uncalled for and undeserved, and an overall detriment to promoting tekes in US. You and I are of that age when generations start to feel potential as we see how we will soon become to "leaders" of our society in whatever realm we excel... but instead of flying headlong forward towards an undefined or unrealistic goal, it is perhaps wiser to be quiet, ask questions when you can, not judge too quickly, work actively to gain knowledge, experience, and perspective, and most of all never mentor the mentors!
54. Dasha12/23/2006 09:05:47 PM
My dear freinds,
I am really glad that discussion gets to more and more in acceptable temper. As I am busy right now with getting ready for several shows I may not write back on historical points right away since I have sent the article with translation for the comments to Russia. Would like to hear from both camps at this point.
Heather, as sweet as you are, if I would be at your place I woudl start taking riding lessons before you can publish comments on my horses... sorry you almost fell of Rikki who is a lesson horse and well broke on the slow trot on the longe line on my property. I wish I had resources to help you out with riding now but now schedule is really busy so please give me a break on the comments. I may help you out later when we are out of showing.
I really do not want to hurt your feelings but you need to learn as much as I am learning but mostly in the saddle not on the paper.
So I would disregard the comment about Moira weight and Dolomit not eating well because it`s quite fabricated...You don`t know what is right what is wrong because you never had the horse and you never cared for it every day.
By the way, Moira`s pictures will be on the my blog shortly www.akhalteke.homestead.com it`s under the rider.
Towards the history again let`s wait from the report from Russia... maybe we can see more light later.
I can not wait to see the pictures of Moira`s son too.
All I said about Paikhas is what my trainer told me and that is not Kate, that`s Wendy who has trained Gran Prix jumpers and 4th level dressage: short legs, long back, short thick neck ... can not get to extended trot because of short legs, all that is not coming out of my mouht and I hope it would be wrong once I start showing. Paikhas is my first Akhal Teke and she is the most loved one. I am not talking about her personality which is A+ I am talking about her limitations which is preventing her from the future advancements... in a big sport.
It was jus a recomendation for the future offspring to get more Moira or Dolomit type of body because they get easily accepted by trainers who don`t know the breed and just looking at the horses and their potential for the future.
I don`t understand what is wrong with that?
I am not asking to breed Dolomit or Moira, I am asking for better horse next time if possible? I am not bringing up Tito`s April as i wrote million times HE WAS SICK and he got better. I am not praising him he just raised champions in Russia and in America and his experience should be valued and respected in today`s pracitse instead of being ignored because it`s not what the grown ups do. Why reinvent?
What if he does not feel well again so all these work will disappear? Who can show any results on several lines and several foundation stock? Who has a few million dollars to experiment, that`s what it comes to and nothing more and maybe 10-15 years.
It is very limited vision to raise the horse of the one`s imagination but not the one who shall suceed and improve the global perseiption about the breed.
There are so few of these horses, I don`t even see how breeders can compete? There is space for everyone under the sun. But if standarts will not continue to create sport Akhal Tekes there is no reason for breeding them because again there will be no buyers, only curious collectors who will be sold on the rarity and the bloodlines.
If someone will tell me that the house I remodelled is horrible or has a bad design, I will sit down and write down the remarks and try to do a better job next time. I won`t sit and cry that it is beatiful it is not me who will live in there, it has to be what the market wants...
I get so many e-mails every day about Akhal Tekes sometimes I can not answear them all. It is not about who`s horse is better or worse it`s about what the good riders can take and win ribbons on. And that`s what I am trying to pass... I am not picking on personalities on breeding standarts I am forwarding the feedback from what I hear.
Trainers will tell the owners what the owners want to hear and that`s why I think it is so important to ask trainers what they think about three horses and go from there.
As to my ability to see what is going I have learned quite a bit riding horses, galloping ponies in the fields and just practise in the dressage ring.
I will only listen to equals. I would not put myslef down to listen to Heather`s obseravtions or anyobody else who does not have horses or horse experiences and not trying to learn. I will tollerate beginners who is trying with ease, towards paper makers who as being clearly discribed as to sit down and have cup of coffe and write away...not to ride away.
Sorry Heather you need to get back in the saddle ... show me I am wrong.
55. Heather12/23/2006 11:26:48 PM
You continue to show that you do not research before writing. You are correct that I have been out of the saddle for a while - just over 3 years in fact - as your were well informed before I came for a lesson with your trainer, not you. And while it is very wrong of you to make claims that I almost fell off Rikki (that takes a lot of Glogg first, yes, Jessica? ) the truth is that you insulting my current finesse in the saddle is what we in America refer to as the pot calling the kettle black... I am out of shape, no doubt or denying, but have a lot of years of experience in the saddle that will come back as the muscle tone returns post pregnancy. You are still learning, as your trainer Kate Bonda was very honest about.
In reference to your second accusation that I am complete beginner and therefore cannot judge horseflesh, you reveal yourself to me at least. While not everyone on the blog can determine the situation or truth therein, we now can see one another in a clear light. You're right - I have not owned horses myself, because I could not afford to as a kid and was in college until pretty recently. But I've worked since childhood in numerous disiplines and spent my college years as the barn manager for a facility with 24 mares and 6 stallions... So am I an expert? Certainly not. Can I tell that Moira was grossly under weight and sensative in the feet when I saw her? You bet. And your trainer Kate Bonda said the same herself.
It is good then, Dasha, that you admire Tito so much, as I now see you both as two of a kind... dangerous to your horses because you are already an "expert", and dangerous to anyone foolish enough to become too involved with your endeavors because you do not hesitate to slander falsely.
56. shael12/24/2006 05:31:28 AM
Dasha, wellcome to visit our Stud.
57. Brenda12/29/2006 01:50:49 AM
I was surfing on the net and came across this blog. I recently bought 2 fillies. One is a palomino weanling that is Half Arabian / Half Akhal Teke - Orlov Rostopchin-Tbred. The other is a Half Arabian / Half Orlov Rostopchin - Tbred who is bred to the sire of the above palomino filly. Anyways, I wanted to know more about the Akhal Teke side. The Akhal Teke in their bloodline is Gorhon. He stood at Ots Sunrise Farm. His Sire is Gigant 17 and Dam Hurma 39. His bloodlines on the sires side is Hutor 17, 971 Halif (828 Fakirpelvan - 1696 Hanum) 1858 Takappara 2 (668 Absent - 1104 Alasu) and the dams side is 2391 Migraciia 21, 904 Melekush (747 Kir Sakar 2i - 1243 Kachahchi), 1739 Gran 42 (852 Azat - 1467 Gulguncha 22) Any information would be appreciated. Thanks, Brenda
58. Allegra Steck12/29/2006 11:45:23 PM
Gorhon was gelded some years ago by the Ots's. I believe, although please don't quote me, that he had some soundness isues in his hocks, either arthritis or OCD, that affected him fairly early on, which was a disappointment as he was a good riding horse. He also sired a purebred filly with a terrible, debilitating parrot mouth despite good breed type. I think this is what led to his gelding. I don't know where he is now, but you can contact the Ots's for more information.
Gorhon's sire Gigant just died this year, he was a prolific sire here in the US with a lot of offspring. Khurma, if I am not mistaken, now stands at a stud in the Netherlands.
I hope this helps,
59. Brenda12/30/2006 08:58:49 PM
I called Ot's already and they faxed me a copy of his papers. They didn't say to much about him. My weanling we think got her color from Gorhon's bloodlines. She is a palomino whose dam was chestnut and sire was supposed to be black, but now they think he is smokey black. I have a 3 yr old chestnut with flaxen mane bred to the smokey and I am hoping to get another palomino. The mare's dam is also closly related to the dam of the palomino.
60. Jessica01/01/2007 12:19:04 PM
Heather, I am so sorry for the "treatment" you got in my virtual living room. Of course you go to a training facility to improve your riding skills and not to be insulted.
Well, I have tried to to make sure that neither you nor I will be insulted on this blog for now at least, by closing out Dasha Cole for a while. Please do not refer from posting your observations on your quest for knowledge on this breed!
61. Jessica01/01/2007 12:22:11 PM
I'm interested in the Orlov-Rostopchin blood in your horse, as far as I understand it must have OR's here in the US used for the breeding of your horses, I would also like to see pictures of them and know what your plans are for them.
62. Natasha 01/04/2007 04:13:13 PM
I am new to the community, I do not own a horse but I hope to purchase a Teke in the near future. I have ridden for a number of years so I am not entirely cluless. I have some comments and questions, I am not attacking anyone so please don't get the wrong impression. As I said I am a newbie, I have never owned a horse but I have wanted an Akhal Teke since childhood. I recently started showing dogs and I was amazed at the overall discord and negativity surrounding people breeding animals they love. I AM SHOCKED by the trash talking about people and their animals. I had hoped that it wouldn't be the same case with the tekes but I guess human nature is impossible to avoid. It is difficult to figure out which way is up for a new person. There are so few resources and breeders that it drives me insane It seems that everyone dislikes one another, there are rivalries (as with everything) and it is so disheartening that it makes me fearful to purchase a horse. I don't know who to believe, I just know what appears beautiful to me. I want a horse for jumping and endurance so sporting ability is paramount in my future horse. I guess what I am trying to say is that I wish there wasn't such drama in this very small community because I don't know where to start. I found both Jessica's and Tito's website and I think all of your animals are amazing, but how can a beginner avoid a bad decision when there is no unbiased judge to mediate. Until I dug a little deeper it seemd that both of these breeders are very succesfull and influential. Everyone needs a mentor of sorts when diving into something new but I feel like I would never know who to trust and who is trying to unload a sick or unsound animal on me or just plain rip me off. The only farms that I have not yet found negative comments about are Stavropol and Shael Teke but it not easy for me to reach out to those places. Thanks for reading my rant and if anyone can recommend good reading materials/websites/and or breeders who have consistently produced top sporting champions I would appreciate it. Perhaps I want the process of purchasing a horse to be far easier and safer than it could ever possibly be, but I am a bit of a dreamer
63. Darya01/05/2007 11:00:21 AM
I would advise to go to your national AT Association and may be join as a member and just listen and learn. People have heated discussions no doubt, but a lot of it is due to a great passion about the breed and also variety which can create a bit of diversity. I am sure as you meet people and get to know them better, you will find the ones you can trust and enjoy sharing and learning from. In the meantime, try and learn as much as possible and the best way is probably just put Akhal Teke in the search engine. Look up the pictures of horses that are well recognized some of the best in the breed and compare and study all the info. See as many Tekes live as possible. In the end, you can always just enjoy your horse and forget about these "politics". As long as you "do your bit" for the breed showing off and training well your AT, there is no reason why you should not be proud and happy.
64. Jessica01/05/2007 11:28:27 AM
Natasha, welcome to my blog. Like Darya said, everything is about your horse, either the horse you own or the horse of your dreams.
The dog and horse world is very much alike, people get into breeding and showing mostly out of passion for what they do, they come from different backgrounds with different competences to breed and show animals.
We have to live with the fact that there is a very nasty and ugly side of the dog and horse worlds. Having said that, I do think that every person that takes on a role in these worlds are responsible for their actions as much as in any other parts of our society.
I must say though that I have met some heavenly people within this breed, people that I would not want to live without! Many of them are frequent visitors on this blog.
Ok back to your horse, the best advice I can give you is to be as specified as possible when you go out and look for your horse and also be honest to the person you are buying from, make sure to make a list of what you want in your horse and also make sure what traits you can compromise on and what traits you cannot compromise on.
If you look for a Teke that is a jumper, then you will want to see the horse jump, it doesn't matter what the breeder tells you about the pedigree, you will jump the horse not the pedigree. Test jump the horse, if the horse is three years and older, test ride it. If the horse is not trained, go for another horse. It is more difficult to buy a younger horse from a breed you do not know, there you will probably look for advice from an experienced person.
You are welcome to ask for advice on this blog, there are several people here that have both long experience with the breed and also train and show horses in different disciplines.
If you live in the USA you can contact me privately for more info on Tekes for sale right now to very low prices, they are not our breedings but are offered to good homes for low prices due to their rough start in life.
65. Natasha 01/06/2007 07:13:52 PM
Thanks so much for the helpful words. One more question are there any lines that are particulary suited to jumping or endurance, as you said pedigree won't get the job done, but it might be a place to start!
66. Brenda01/07/2007 02:22:02 AM
I've tried emailing you at both emails and I keep getting them returned due to your firewall. The Orlov Rostopchins come from Barbara Weber in WI. She imported an elite 1 stallion named Izkusnik. He ended up being put down due to a broken leg when he was 4 (I think). She still owns his offspring and have a bunch for sale including the sire of my palomino, who is also the stallion bred to my 3 yr old chestnut mare. He is the one whose sire is Gorhon and his dam is by Izkusnik out of a T-bred mare. Her website is www.rusianridinghorse.com. My plans for the two fillies are to breed them to eastern european warmbloods and russian breds with golden color. They will also be shown in-hand and in dressage. Have you heard of the Equus Kinsky? My half Han / half Arab mare is bred to a palomino stallion named "Blonder Hans". He is a German warmblood and Equus Kinsky. Is there anyway I can email you to send you pictures?
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