here comes the question (I removed the name of the horse as it is not the horse itself the question is about):
"I am still puzzled at the choice of the word elite, however. In the US gradings, mares that were not above a certain number in type or conformation were not elite. My mare XX was graded a 7.6 in type and an 8.5 for conformation, and yet she was not elite. I only ask this to learn how it is different in various parts of the country, Sweden for example. You have a mare on your web site that is a 7.0 for type and an 8.0 for conformation, and yet she is listed as elite. Can you help me learn the differences in the grading system that this would be so? I mean totally NO hostility here. I only want just to learn, that is all. I am seeing that the grading system is pretty mixed up all over, when horses from one area cannot be compared directly across the board with horses from another area. I much appreciate and thank you in advance for helping me sort out this muddy understanding."

A grading is an estimated breeding value EBV classification based on certain criteria or judgement points. The sum of the points will give you the breed classification. For warmbloods normally you would in a grading look at type, head neck body, legs, walk and trot, for every judgement criteria the horse will be given a value normally on the 1-10 scale where 10 is the best and 5 should be average (the scale is seldom used in this way but that is another discussion). So the maximum points the horse can get is 50 points so say that 40-50 points will be graded class I 30-39 class II etc. The estimated breeding value EBV classification is different (in warmbloods not in Tekes) from the Breeding Value (BV) classification where the term elite is used. The BV classification is always performed on the value of the offspring, so in the warmblood world a horse (neither stallion nor mares) can acvheive elite grading without offspring.
Actually stallions are not graded normally but tested. When I look at a Swedish Warmblood stallion's grading I know that a B and AB grading is the EBV while the A C or elite is the BV grading.

In the Teke breed the classification scale for EBV and BV is the same, the classes are kassated class II class I and elite. An elite graded horse cannot have any points below 7 in the criterias judged the judge will have the last saying though if the horse will be graded the highest classification elite. I do not which criteria were judged in the USA, was it type, conformation, measurements, pedigree, performance and offspring? Or were they based on type and conformation as you have those points? Did you get the gradings on site, what does the grading protocol say? I think the horse you looked at on our site was Alma, she got the points and the gradings from T. Ryabova and G. Kiarizov in 1998, the motivation for her elite grading was the she was of very good constitution and was considered a very promising broodmare. Alma was graded class I in 2003 by L. Babayev and A. Klimuk. Your horse was graded by T. Ryabova. T. Ryabova also changes gradings made by herself according to what the horse looks like when she is grading it the following times. Grading is judgeing and it takes a while and some visits to breed shows to get to understand how the breed you work with is evaluated. Really it is very difficult to compare horses on paper.
Your horse might get a higher grading next time, you never know if the judge thinks she has developed nicely, normally the younger horse is judged with rather a little bit lower points than the mature horse. When I compare how my horses have been judge I also found that L. Babayev and A. Klimuk gave lower gradings than T. Ryabova. This you can only learn by experience and your experience tells you how to read the points.
The most important thing to do though is to learn to trust your own eye and work out a clear breeding goal, just because a judge found your horse elite doesn't mean that the horse will be good for you.

1. shael01/03/2007 01:50:54
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

The grading for purebred breeds is nonsence, trivialities. I admit grading like competitions only. Other is from evil. For our Stud we do not need in "official" estimation. For us is interesting opinnions of persons, wich we respect, but this opinnions are our interest only. When we send horses to breed shows, it is our decision to set them under estimations of different judges. But this is competition, show only.
Grading is race, sport, breeding results and important like analize in your own head.
I do not need and I do not admit "official grading".

2. Todd Keith01/03/2007 11:23:31
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/

What is an Official Grading???
Many say that they have an official MAAK grading.
If you look at the organizations, MAAK has no right to grade horses.
IF a horse is graded, the only official grading that can be allowed (if it is to be allowed as Leonid mentions) is the grading from the studbook, which is controlled by VNIIK (run by the Russian Gov.) and not MAAK. So saying a horse is graded by MAAK has the same weight as a horse being graded by HARAS or any other national association.
Once again the different organizations (MAAK, VNIIK and the Russian AT Association) are their unique roles are confused.
As Leonid points out, there is no requirement that a horse needs to be graded by anyone for entry into the studbook. Only the pedigree of the horse dictates entry as a purebred.

Todd

3. Anne-Marie01/03/2007 18:08:07
Homepage: http://freedomrunfarm.com

Honestly, I know I am new to the Akhal-Teke world but I think people spend too much time worrying over the grading points. I understand that in a marketing aspect an Elite grade sells better then class 1 but, Pretty is as pretty does. I agree with Leonid. Lets look at the horse and what it can do, not only the amount of points it has.

anne-marie

4. Jessica01/03/2007 18:42:17

Anne-Marie,
I agree with you that the grading points for you as an owner, user and breeder is of not that much value. You select, train, show and breed horses for the traits you like, as you have a breeding goal and a training goal.
However, for a newcomer there is a lot of education to get from looking at how the breed is judged by the experts and to learn from looking at the grading points.
As well as for the breeder to have their young stock continously evaluated by others whom they respect for their knowledge and acheivements. This as much as you continously develop as a rider by training for the masters of your discipline.
As Leonid say though, with our breed that is kept as a purebred, the showing of the horse for judges should be optional.
BTW will you be showing at HITS in Ocala, Todd is ready with the camera!

5. Anne-Marie01/03/2007 19:04:22
Homepage: http://freedomrunfarm.com

I agree, when I first started shopping for my AT I did look at points and grading but I have also noted that points change on horses and you cannot judge a horse on points alone. those are my thoughts anyway... I am bringing Metman down to Ocala on the 15th, he will be ridden by a good friend of mine who is an international event rider and he will take him to the showjumping shows, I will be stuck at home working. I am hoping to be able to fly down and take him to some dressage shows while he is there also. I'll keep you posted. .....And belated congrats on the Breyer page, good advertizing for the breed.

6. Jessica01/04/2007 08:40:06

Ann-Marie,
Yes, indeed points are gradings might change but for you it is always the same horse. The one you chose for the traits you liked, no one else can tell you what kind of horse you should have! That's why we have the diversity in the breeds and horses that do different things, we should be grateful for that fact. Having said that though, I think that the breed show is a very important institution to educate the public about the breed and for breeders to benchmark their work. And as a great gathering place for breed enthusiasts. The breed show institution managed correctly will ensure the circulation of judges, again to assure diversity ad fairness.
Great that you bring Metman to HITS, Todd has some photo jobs there so please keep us posted on what dates you plan to start him. If you have time when you are in Florida you are more than welcome to visit us. We are located one hour from Ocala. Would you mind telling me the name of the rider that will show Metman?

7. Anne-Marie01/04/2007 20:11:42
Homepage: http://freedomrunfarm.com

That brings up another point I have been meaning to get more info on... I have heard that you are planning a show in Florida this year for the AT is that right? and if so I would like more info.
Robin Walker from England will be riding him and he will be stabled at Bruce Davidson's place.

8. Jessica01/05/2007 11:04:56

Yes we will arrange a breed show in Florida this year, it is open to all Tekes, there will be in-hand classes, riding classes and fun classes. The show will be a manifestation for the breed and we like to show to the public the beauty and versatility of the breed as well as offer the owners to have Russian expertise evaluate their horses. As we have the experts here there will be opportunities to participate in seminars as well.
The date for the show will set soon. The show will be held in October due to the busy schedules of the judges.

9. Misa + Misa01/16/2007 07:29:49
Homepage: http://www.achalteke.cz

I read through your discussion and so I Would like to participate with our problem. We prepared gradings to every horse on our web site (www.achalteke.cz). But unfortunatelly arised quess between several breeders, if we will have to give the gradings to our web and what kind of gradings have to be use – the gradings from studbook or the gradings done by inspector from Russia, who came through all the stud in Czech and grade all the horses. Please can you help us with this problem? Itīs better to give the gradings done by this inspector or from studbook? Which gradings have the highest predicable values? We would be happy about your opinions. thanks

10. Jessica01/17/2007 09:16:51

Hello Misa, welcome to the blog. Your question is very interesting.
If the on-site gradings performed by the inspector from Russia was arranged and officially acknowledged by the Czech association those results are the official results for your country. The grading points published in the Russian studbook was out of your (and the breeders/owners) control and would therefore not be considered official by a national association.
The Russian studbook is governed by the Russian state and they have no reason to follow rules for the breed set up by national associations neither I guess have the national association been informed and involved in the procedures for gradings in the studbook.
Had I been in a national association I would not approve of the Russian publications at all of national grading results arranged by a n authorized national association.
Looking at the problem from a breeder/owners point of view, I would not accept points given to a horse that can not be related to a place and date for a physical inspection that has been approved by the owner at that point.
Also the inscription into the studbook must be initiated by an activity by the owner at that time that present the horse for studbook inscription and also get a copy of grading results for that occassion.
In the Teke breed there are no once-in-a-life time breeding value establishing gradings.
I think the national associations will have to listen to the breeders and decide on how the national breed shows will be performed and who has the jurisdiction to publish grading results for horses within the realm of the national association.