is not easy as there are no reliable guidelines from the international breed organisation. It is also difficult to foresee the market needs for this breed in the future, from past and recent discussions though I think I can see a wish from future buyers and users of Tekes to breed for soundness, stronger conformation more suitable for modern riding needs, at the same time maintain typical traits.

An increasing number of buyers and new breeders every year ask for performance records in classical sports and some even select predicted sport horse performances before type. Some even claim that their breeding programs will produce international GP level Tekes, something we have not seen in this breed since the 60's.

Within many other "type" breeds the saying is that the breeders that go for the sport abilities are the short sighted while those who breed for blood lines/type are those that will maintain the breed for future generations.

The question is though, will typical, thoroughbred Tekes be sought after by the market?

1. Kerri-Jo Stewart03/15/2007 00:40:08
Homepage: http://Akhal-Teke.ca

Yes, everyone loves a beautiful horse!

The majority of people want a nice riding horse - how many really go Grand Prix?

I am interested in learning what a group of breeders in North America came up with as breed guidelines for the future. Were you part of that Jessica?

2. Darya03/15/2007 06:31:48
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

It seems to me that there is a huge difference between average/amateur (don't intend to offend anyone, just can't think of a better name for a moment) riders and professional riders who go Grand Prix. To a professional it seems more that the sport itself, not the horses that matter and they approach a horse as a sports equipment, while the average rider just enjoy being with and around the horses. I am really not sure what is good or bad here, but it also seems that it doesn't work when you treat Tekes as sports equipment. May be somewhere there is the answer to why there is no other Absent, cos the attitude of a lot of sportsmen/women has changed. I hope this makes sence, just my thoughts on the matter.

3. Jessica 03/15/2007 14:03:44

Kerry-Jo
The problem is that beautiful is subjective. Probably the goal that defines each breeder's personal preferences what they breed.
I have not read results from a working group here in the USA, it would be interesting to see their work though.

4. Jessica 03/15/2007 14:11:27

Darya, you are right about the fact that in riding sports like in other sports there are amateurs and professionals, amateur meaning that you do it for pleasure and not for money, which means that an amateur rider can be a better rider than a professional sometimes.
Horses bred for amateur riders are different than those bred for professional riders though.
I think many Tekes would fare well and perform optimally with professional riders as well as many amateur riders enjoy training the Tekes.
You might select differently in your breeding program though if you breed for amateur riders or for professionals.

5. Darya03/15/2007 16:48:56
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

It seems sad that a lot of amateur riders have not discovered all the pluses of Tekes yet and the professionals see too many low quality horses and that puts them off. There seems to be very few professionals who are willing to adapt their methods to a particular horse, and this is where problems arise often as I find with Tekes you just have to be so much lighter and very careful and precise with the aids. I think it takes a very talented and knowing professional to take a Teke to GP, but the result would be breathtaking. I hope I will see that happen within my lifetime. I'd love to do it myself, but who to learn from? I had a lesson with one lady and she was telling me to sqeeze my stallion with my leags and push him forward and get some contact with my reins. I could feel Dominik getting more and more agitated. He eventually took off, she thought he spooked of something, but I think he has just had enough of that thing and voted with his feet. Where is the best place to find a trainer who is more used to working with hotblooded sensitive horses? Any ideas?

6. Tabitha03/16/2007 05:11:01

Hi Darya,
I agree with you, they're not so easy to find.
In april I'm going to a "Natural Horsemanship" day where there's also this guy who combines NH with Classical Dressage. He's in touch with David William de Wispelaere too (http://www.dwdewispelaere.com/form/main.html) who is known over here to be willing to train every kind of combination no matter what kind of breed the horse is.

Anyways I'm going to see what kind of man he's like and if I like his way of teaching. I think NH combined with CD is a very good combination. Trainers who use NH or a form of NH (basically comes down to understanding the horse (I know there are traditional trainers who do too but they're hard to find)) usually adapt their training to the horse rather than that the horse has to adapt to the training. That's my experience anyways.

7. Darya03/16/2007 06:43:26
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

Hi Tabitha,
Thanks for the interesting info, I like David's philosophy, people who combine all the best training methods to get beautiful results are so hard to come by. He seems in so much more harmony with a horse than a lot of top dressage riders one sees in Grand Prix. Too bad he is in Germany!
Good luck with your day out, hope you find some good people there!

8. maria03/16/2007 07:54:47

Darya, your description sounds like a classic case of an unsuitable trainer for a Teke. One just has to keep looking. Try to meet more people in your area, go to clinics and observe trainers teach, rather than try lessons on Dominik straight away. You don't want too many unsuitable trainers for him...

9. Jessica03/16/2007 10:02:48

Back to the original topic of this thread I would say that there are Tekes with character and temperament that are suitable for amateur rider of most levels.
Some Tekes though have neither the character suitable for the amateur rider nor the capacity for the professional rider.
These horses tend to a little bit to often end up as breeding animals. Breeding horses is much easier than riding if you do not care for selection and testing of your breeding animals.
For example here in the USA you can find a third generation Teke whose mother and grandmother haven't been under saddle and therefore are untested as riding animals and in many cases have spent most of their lives under semi wild conditions.
As a buyer one must be aware of the fact that a riding horses is as much bred as made, eg the best riding horse has parents that are good riding horses and a good riding horse has a good education.

10. Leonid03/16/2007 10:29:56
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

Вы извините меня за прямоту, но вы со своей западной толерантностью вынуждены слушать всё подряд и при этом улыбаться. Я так не могу и чушь буду называть чушью. Мы практически знаем всех наших клиентов, кто покупал текинцев за пределы России. Все эти люди с точки зрения личного спортивного мастерства относятся к разряду любителей. Приобретённые лошади были, как правило, среднего уровня и ожидать от них каких-то спортивных подвигов просто не реально. Мало того, эти средние лошади поступали в разведение и плодили таких же средних лошадей. Безусловно были и исключения. В России, за последние 30 лет, была по политическим причинам потеряна школа и объективно текинцы, впрочем, как и лошади других пород не могли достичь спортивных вершин.
Теперь спортсмены-любители, чтобы оправдать свою неспособность говорят, что текинцу нужен особый подход, особое отношение. Придуман термин "натуральные отношения", как будто существуют "ненатуральные". Смешно это слушать. Есть закон об условных и безусловных рефлексах по профессору Павлову, вырабатываются эти рефлексы "кнутом и пряником". И благодаря этому при наличии таланта у лошади и всадника добиваются результата. Всё остальное от лукавого.

11. Jessica03/16/2007 10:38:53

Leonid, I agree to one 100% (with the Babelfish translation)!

This is what we will have to accept in the west that we are trying to recreate Tekes like Absent with second class animals, many of them with fake performance records!
Not good promotion for the breed at all.

12. Jessica 03/16/2007 10:58:27

I think there is a need to work out a Standard of Excellence for this breed for newcomers to benchmark with when they buy and breed Tekes, there is no place today, accessible via the web or literature where you can actually look at a modern Standard of Excellence, preferreably it would be worked out for stallions and mares as they are different, it would also include the best performance results in all sports.
Today the quality in the west is not improving as many in the west has nothing to compare with than many mediocre animals that are offered here.
For example if you look at the whole range of the stallions that are offered for breeding in the US, the quality among the medium and lower is so low that you can take any stallion today, compare to the stallion population offered and find many that are worse than whatever you select.

13. Leonid03/16/2007 11:01:56
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

http://www.shael-teke.com/web/shael.nsf/aaed36042a228c3a85257225006ea9a9/05a0a5ba6bbeef2a85257215003eb865/Body/51.32D0?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg

14. Leonid03/16/2007 11:04:30
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

http://www.shael-teke.com/web/shael.nsf/aaed36042a228c3a85257225006ea9a9/05a0a5ba6bbeef2a85257215003eb865/Body/24.2CFC?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg

15. Jessica03/16/2007 12:19:39

The Standard of Excellence cannot be represented by an individual horse, look at this Standard with excellent illustrations and explanations, http://www.ahsa.asn.au/purebred.htm
Something like this would really be of great help for marketing, breed improvement and education.
We must dare to say in a breed description what is not wanted in the breed as well as promote traits that we cannot loose in order to maintain breed type for future generations.

16. Darya03/16/2007 12:31:28
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

I agree and I do not. It is like talking about the ability of a child to walk, before it had the chance to learn it. Not all of us have the chance to train alongside a clever horseman since the age of five or so. Even most talented professional riders will tell you that they would not make it without their teachers. Deprived of that chance is not the same as not having an ability. Although I believe it is never late to learn. A good horse can be accquired at a later stage, if one can take an average horse to intermediate, they can take on a better horse and go further. It doesn't happen in one years time. You are welcome to correct me if I misunderstand something. We all start somewhere and people are not born professional GP riders, they learn it.

17. Leonid03/16/2007 12:53:49
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

Разница между проффесиональным всадником и любителем в следующем. Любитель приобретает себе клячу и влюбляется в неё, и это прекрасно. Проффесионал всегда готов без сожаления сменить лошадь, если она перестаёт отвечать его требованиям или если он находит более перспективную.

18. Leonid03/16/2007 13:07:33
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

http://www.shael-teke.com/web/shael.nsf/aaed36042a228c3a85257225006ea9a9/bec32e1492ccd35685257215004341b1/Body/0.84?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg
http://www.shael-teke.com/web/shael.nsf/aaed36042a228c3a85257225006ea9a9/bec32e1492ccd35685257215004341b1/Body/18.39B4?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg

19. Jessica03/16/2007 13:34:29

This is also the difference between the professional and amateur breeder.

20. Darya03/16/2007 15:13:43
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

That's why I said that the horse can be changed/upgraded later when the rider is ready to go further, and the horse is not. The difference is also in the money. A bottomless bank account (or parents with the one) certainly helps to "make" a professional (rider or breeder). Meanwhile we (personally) will see how far we can get with what we got and if we do well may be there will be an opportunity in a shape of a sponsor. I would have to go and try to convince Leonid that I am worthy of one of his equine jewels. At least for the competition ring...

21. Darya03/16/2007 16:00:02
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

Leonid,

I love Makka, congratulations. Looking at his pedigree makes me want to breed Oinam to Posman stallion...

22. Jessica03/16/2007 16:04:00

Darya, few professional riders own the horses they show, they live from being successful in competitions, many professional riders are so because they are talented enough to stay on top and to get the horse owners to pay them to ride their horses.
This is what's so fantastic with the horse industry, if you have talent, are prepared to work hard and educate yourself, you can come very far without a fat bank account!

23. Darya03/16/2007 16:35:25
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

Yes, I believe if one is good enough people will pay them. I know they do not normally own the horses they ride, that's why I said I would have to go to Leonid. Not now though, I'm like a 2 yo now if you compare riding to walking. I mean professional riding, competition type. I don't think I would want any other breed although there is probably more money in it. Not much point talking about it though need to spend more time learning. I think I will go to a few riding schools and have a few lessons (on their horses) just to get the feel of things and may be I will meet someone very useful for my learning. Got to start somewhere...

24. Leonid03/16/2007 16:38:50
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

Thank you Daria. Melana is full sister of Maxud. If remember I recomended french stallion for Oynam.

25. Darya03/16/2007 16:55:38
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

Yes, I've noticed she was full sister to him, the owner of Karakaisu has just declared her stallion available for breeding by the way. There are other Posman stallions available too so it is a realistic and an interesting choice.

26. Leonid03/17/2007 02:26:35
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

By the way, try to use Mualim. He is formaly Posman, but looks like real Arab, massive and long and big. His pedigree much better, he is full brother of Shaar.

27. Darya03/17/2007 03:59:55
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

Thanks Leonid, I was keeping him in mind, he has got a very good pedigree. I also have a chance to get to know him well, which is always good.

28. Kristin 03/18/2007 16:16:42

I think it■s the breeders responsibility and almost obligation to make sure that this breed doesn■t get to ordinary, so it will attract more buyers.
Make sound horses with good heads och keep that what makes the Teke so special. Allways quality before quantity.
The Teke is a small breed, by numbers, and that is why it■s so difficult to find a GP horse among them. The bigger breed, the bigger chance to find one.

29. Heather03/19/2007 09:15:08

I think the discussion of talent alone making it in the horse world is also largely influenced by luck (being in the right place at the right time), and the willingness of those around you. I will admit completely that I am little sensitive on this subject, but it is not always true that talent and a LOT of hard work will open doors. I was on a horse all the time as a kid in the cow pastures, and was a much better rider, because now I have a baby, work full time, and don't have riding time as readily available. But when I was young, it was always the same - people would tell my parents, "She has natural talent, she could do something with this if she gets the right training." My parents were public school teachers. They could not afford expensive lessons or horses or the clothing one needs to compete. Always I was mucking stalls and grooming horses for lessons, and always the trainers were saying, "you need to be here more often, you need to get competing." But always, the paying students came first, and parents WILL complain if their paying child is waiting for their lesson while the stall mucker is taking up the trainer's time. Maybe there are exceptional people that will give of themselves, but I don't think that passion and desire will guarantee that to you. I have tried for years. Now, I will be 25 next month and have less muscle after pregnancy - which is partially my own fault - but no one would look at me now and say, "she is worth an investment of my time." I am happy for those that are successful down that route, but you can only do so much on your own, and it is immeasurably disappointing when you realize that passion is not enough to deliver your dreams.

Okay, I think perhaps that sounded too sad sack, which I did not mean! It's just the truth that being successful requires a lot more than your hard work and hopes.

30. Kerri-Jo Stewart03/20/2007 02:14:59
Homepage: http://Akhal-Teke.ca

Who is this: http://www.konevodstvo.ru/Tur/miting_05/P1290658.jpg?

I am also looking for pictures of Pampa, Parisa and Pasilla - Leonid? Any one know where I can find some?

Thanks for any information!!

31. Jessica03/20/2007 10:15:31

Heather, I agree with you that it seems that many talents are wasted in the USA due to the lack of proper, affordable basic riding education. However, many have been working hard to obtain their present status without rich parents.
Riding is expensive in Sweden to but we have the riding school system were most counties offer riding lessons by approved teachers on well trained horsesfor an affordable sum at nice riding schools.
This is why Sweden with only 8 million people can have world class riders in show jumping and dressage and with only 5000 warmblood broodmares (compared to 50 000 in Germany) be ranked as number two stud book for producing dressage horses in the world.
When you are small you have to be smarter than the big!

32. Leonid03/22/2007 11:16:21
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

This is Chaka Shael. Foto of Pampa, Pariza and Pazila you can find in VNIIK, ask Nadya.