Astra

Photo Bob Langrish

Astra

Photo Bob Langrish

KaraKum herd

Photo Bob Langrish

KaraKum herd

Photo Bob Langrish

1. Leonid04/10/2007 08:39:29
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

You need to rename, not "Kara-Kum" - "SunnyGreen-Kum"

2. Jessica04/10/2007 09:03:27

Yes, we need a total name makeover.
I have been considering Darby Turks as we live in the little village of Darby and to drop the Teke name, and go back to the name our type of horses were given the first time they entered Europe in the 17th century.
The Turks are also described as having incredible stamina free-flowing movement and a good temperament. The first Turks to enter England were described as "A horse of a strong and comely fashion, loving disposition, and infinite courageousness. His limbs and general features are so strong and well-knit together that he has ever been reputed the only beast for the wars, being naturally free from fear or cowardice. His head is long, lean and very slender; and does from eye to nose bend like a hawk's beak. He has a great, full eye, a sharp ear, and a straight leg, which, to an over curious eye might appear too slender -- which is all the fault curiosity itself and find. They are naturally of a lofty pace, loving to their rider, most strong in their exercise, and to conclude, as good in all points that no foreign race has ever borne a tithe so much excellence."
this description fits so much better to our horses than the common description of Tekes as stubborn one man's horses with a conformation unsuitable for riding.

3. Leonid04/10/2007 09:29:39
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

Darby TekeTurks (DTT)

4. Jessica04/10/2007 09:45:20

Perfect name Leonid! I will make this suggestion to Todd and maybe we will soon have our own breed and our own state-of-the-art registry.

5. Leonid04/10/2007 11:09:03
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

Turk has another mean - turkey cock. May be simple - "Darby-Teke"

6. Carolyn04/10/2007 11:22:27

Good heavens, no wonder you were so excited about getting some rain- those are pretty impressive dust clouds in the photos. Wish we had that luck up here in Canada- continuous cycle of snow, rain and mud! Summer has to come eventually (I hope)
Gorgeous pics yet again.

7. Jessica04/10/2007 12:29:41

Carolyn, I think photo number three could be named the golden horses from the Black Sand Desert!
I know how you feel with never ending snow and mud in the spring, I am not envious!

8. Jessica04/10/2007 12:35:35

I like Turk though as it has references to the Turkmen horse and also was a part of the name of many important founding horses of the English TB like Place's White Turk, Darcy's Turk and Byerly Turk, the Arabs, Barbs and Turks are known to most people as being founders of the TB while the name Akhal-Teke has no references in earlier literature.

9. Darya04/10/2007 16:38:45
Homepage: http://www.avatstud.com

I like the idea of calling horses Turks. Often when people ask me of the breed I mention that they are Turkmen horses (or Turks). It seems to underline the history and how ancient the breed is. To people who are more into history it brings all the associations with favourable descriptions too.

Not sure about trying to create a new breed though. I know it is easier just to completely start anew, but I think the results are (or will be) better if we work hard to improve the situation with the old.

10. Jessica04/10/2007 17:44:14

Darya, Turks should work fine in England as the first Turks were imported into England, Todd also reminded me that until the 19th century the French called the English TB "Anglo Turc". That was before the Arabians were introduced to England.
I think that the Akhal-Teke brand already is connected with low quality animals, obscure history and non existing studbook integrity in the west to be worth while spending efforts working on improving. For every step we take ahead we will have to back two due to the so called international breed management. I have seen much of my work destroyed by them already and I am not stupid enough to make the same mistake twice.
The Turks is not a new breed it is a new approach to the finest breed in the world, we had a Ferrarri now it has been trashed to the value of a Skoda (no offense to Skoda owners, for some the Skoda SUV is cult).

11. Kerri-Jo Stewart04/10/2007 19:21:06
Homepage: http://Akhal-Teke.ca

wow - gorgeous horses and amazing colours!!!!

12. Heather04/16/2007 08:56:46

Back from Easter break, and happy to find new pictures! They are lovely. Todd, Bob Langrish is a very good photographer, no doubt, but I haven't seen images yet that outdo your own. Perhaps in addition to horses, IT business, and finch breeding, you should become horse photographer extraordinaire?? Especially if you get that new Canon and can fire off a gillion frames per second!

13. Todd04/16/2007 11:28:33
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/

Thanks Heather!
Do you think I can make more money as a photographer than breeding finches???

14. Heather04/16/2007 13:48:26

Haha! Well, I took Gwynn to the pet store just for fun this past Saturday... so NO, maybe not. They had some beautiful finches, but I was thinking perhaps I am in the wrong business! I should quit teaching and start breeding finches! $$$$

15. Kerri-Jo Stewart04/17/2007 01:32:32
Homepage: http://Akhal-Teke.ca

I agree with Heather - I really like Todd's photography.

16. Laurence Bougault04/17/2007 17:26:52
Homepage: http://www.cheval-akhal-teke.com

Hi everybody,
Jessica, i thought to your turk name. I worked on Napoleon horses and saw 4 eastern breeds : barb, turk, arab and turkmen... Don't make the mistake between Turk and Turkmen. Booth exist from very long time... It's really difficult to do something with old studbooks... What i saw is some of those horses are unusually tall : a few "barb", coming from the bey of Tunis, and some "turk" as well. Old authors talked about 2 differents "barbs". In the XIXe century, Ottoman were all over from Turkish land up to Marroco... and Ottoman were Turkmen people. What I think is some of the horses came directly from Akhal area, other are mixed Arab/Turkmen... In 19e century, the name is Turcoman, no? And i really like it. Should be akhal téké true name, no?? Remember, at the beginning was only one studbook, turkmen horses, divided in 2 parts, Akhal téké and yomud. Do you know yomud are disappearing at the moment? Their are wonderfull endurance horses too...
About Napoléon and the akhal tekes i wrote an article on my website but i'm too stupid in english for a translation!!

17. Jessica04/18/2007 14:30:54

Laurence, first have you any news on your quest for a Teke in Azerbadjan?
The subject of Akhal-Teke Turkmen Turk is so interesting so I will create a new subject for this discussion.
The Napoleon - Akhal-Teke connection is new to me! On my mothers side our founding mother was a mistress to Napoleon, I inherited her golden cross some years ago. Maybe I can call our horses Napoleon Turks now!
I will babelfish your text as soon as we get a rainy day here, to much sun here really to have time to read.

18. Tabitha04/19/2007 06:47:34

No need to Jessica. Here is the translation (as best as I could do). Where I was not certain I placed a [?] sign.
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Did Napoleon have Akhal-Tekes?

Thanks to the excellent book “Les chevaux de Napoléon” (Napoleon’s horses) written by Philippe Osché with cooperation of Frédéric Künzi, art historian, it is possible to consider the Akhal-Teke in an historian perspective.In those times the European (and others, with perhaps the exception of the Arabian) did not know studbooks. The designation of horses was pretty vague and often corresponded more on locations as to type.
A lot of Napoleon’s horses originated from the Orient. These oriental horses were recorded as Barb, Arab, Turc or Persian.They came from Turkey (a lot were offered par the Ambassador of the “Sublime Porte”), from Marocco (offered by his Majesty the King of Marocco), from Egypt (taken during campagns?), from Russia (mostly the Arab and Persian horses).
By reading Phillipe Osté’s book, which shows a remarkable precision, one quickly distinguishes that these designations includes/cover horses with very much differences among them (certainly the Arabs, some measuring 1.47 m and others 1.60 m up to 1.70 m!) and differ much from the present designations (almost all barbs were big, between 1.56m and 1.60m, where nowadays there mostly small horses, between 1.40m and 1.50m).
In short it is, in almost all cases, very difficult to confirm this or that. However, certain horses seemed to us very close to the Turkmen type for the following reasons: their rather high size (at least 1,52 m with the garrot), their very vertical wearing of head, their croup falls with a tail attached low, their allied robustness [?]with the smoothness of the limbs, and sometimes of their golden and soft yellow colors. Since at that time Turkey was under the Ottoman influence, i.e. Turkmen, all this is not very surprising. The riders of those times covered very long distances (Napoleon often traversed 100 km per day in shift, by changing horse regularly) and the Eastern habit of offering horses in pledge of peace (perpetuated today by Nyazov) was very widespread. As for the horses bought in Russia and known as Persian or Arab, nothing contradicts that it concerns the famous Argamaks, the Russian name for the Turkmen horses. Certain horses of Napoleon were even named “The Turkmen”, which is in reality a poor indication, because nobody at the time worried about the historical and geographical veracity (one finds for example a Norman horse named the Russian!). However, this name testifies at least to a knowledge of Eastern races coming from this area of the world, Turkmenistan. Some horses really made me think of Akhal-Tekes. La Belle, for example is indexed as a Barb mare. It measures 1,56 m at the withers. When one looks at the drawings that represent it, in particular that of Pierre Martinet, one is struck by the typically Turkmen carriage of the neck . If David draws him a long mane, the other painters however represent it very short. Finally its back is rather hollow and long, which obviously remind one of horses like Arabs for example.
Le Curde, indicated in the registers as a Turc stallion of 1,52m at the withers, made me also think of him as Akhal-Téké by the illustrations that reached us: the head is small on a massive body. The inclination of the shoulders and the croup resembles that of modern Tekes, the feet are very tilted, the hair is sparse, the dry and fine members. The text accompanying the precise engraving of Mandret "that it has distinction, elegance and beautiful forms" and that it has a very good trot. One does not know if its paces in trot were gliding like those of Akhal-Tekes, which have, because of their pace of which the natural extension is remarkable, contributed to the famous Orlov trotter breed.
Le Dardanus, of which we unfortunately do not have a portrait, was a Turk stallion of 1,60m at the withers and golden bay. One unfortunately knows almost nothing about the origins of this horse.
L' Emir, a buckskin Turk stallion, measured only 1,47m at the withers but was given by the Large Lord of Turkey. He proved his endurance during the campaign of Russie.
L'Ispahan (n°1030/1773 in the Register of Napoleon’s saddle horses), a Turk gelding was silvery gray and measured 1,58m at the withers. We know almost nothing about him and there unfortunately does not remain any portrait of this horse.
One finds also horses known as Turkmen, bought in Russia by Mr Lavarine. They are generally small (1,45/1,47m).
Menouf, whole Arab, sent by the Lord of Turkey, measured 1,58m at the withers and was recorded shining bay, [line of mule??], which could correspond very well to a buckskin.
Le Sara, of which there are two portraits (one of Martinet and one of Sauerweid) is recorded as an Arab stallion of 1,58m. One does not know his origin but he resembles very little to a modern Arab. It was a large and massive horse, with a long back and a fine neck. It was represented by Martinet with little hair.
Le Tamerlan is also interesting. It was small, 1.49m at the withers and known as Persian, silver gray and coming from Russia. It is represented in rearing pose by Vernet. Its eye is clear and its head particularly long.
Le Turckmen (n°138) has an evocative name. It is indicated as Arab and measuring 1,52m at the withers. It was offered by the Ambassador of “la Sublime Porte”. The comments are interesting: "It has size, a regular shape and beautiful limbs/extremities[?]. This horse has speed, places its feet very certain, but a little difficult to lead because its head is badly attached. It has also too much mandible[?] "(horses of Napoleon, p. 244) Did it have a swan neck? Clearly, all these remarks are not evidence. They simply invite us to consider/reflect[?].

If the Turkmen horses of today pass as rare, because of the Russian extermination related to a double cause (fear of the Turkemn revolts and the switch to higher production [?] related to the mechanization of the army), they were extremely numerous in the past. As well as the Barb and the Arab, and because they have similar qualities, with on top of that more size, they are among the horses which gave blood to the horses of Europe.
It is not to enter what Jean-Louis Gouraud calls the "Akhla-Teke sect" but quite simply to give recognition to these horses’ share in the history of the thoroughbred horses.

19. Jessica04/19/2007 15:53:54

Tabitha, thank for the translation, this is so interesting, we should really work harder on compiling the European early imports of Turks, we had some imported to Sweden to, will when I have time add a painting of a yellow Turk that was given to one of our kings if I am not wrong from the French Court.

20. Tabitha04/20/2007 02:56:38

Yes... it's really interesting. I was reading thruough it while translating, really remarquable. Certainly the pictures at his website are great. Certainly Le Curde looks to me very much like a Teke. It's great that Laurence wrote it down for us.

21. Laurence Bougault04/20/2007 06:26:32
Homepage: http://www.cheval-akhal-teke.com

Thank you Tabitha!! Much better as my english... No, Jessica, nothing good about Azerbaďdjan. Nobody speaking english. No e-mail address. Should write a letter but no time. I need to learn about a new job : stallion owner!! and only one month now before the foaling... Habiba has to be train as well. I'm alone for all this and have to work as well... I would love to go to Moscow and Piatigorsk this year. I'm not sure when it will be... Time is runing too fast!