Agilas is a 22 years old, 162.5 cm ( 16 h), cannon bone 21 cm, cream stallion by Ararat out of Guiva born at Lugovskoy, Kazakhstan.

He is a 3 x 5 line breeding on Arab, and via Ararat a grandson of Absent. Agilas will soon be added under Our horses so that pedigree interested can check out his full pedigree.

Agilas has been with a Kazakh Circus group for most of his life, he came to the group as a two-year-old and retired from the work as a circus horse in 2002.
Agilas was one of 8 Teke stallions that were with the Kazakh group that toured in the US. Agilas was one of the last stallions to be retired from the circus.
He has one offspring in the USA from a polo pony mare that was born this year.

We have selected Agilas for the these reasons:
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- He has a correct conformation and is a sound horse of good size and bone.

- He is not proven in sports but his soundness, temperament and workability is proven by his many years of working and touring with a circus. He is now 22 and still going strong. Look at his strong topline in his pictures at the age of 22.

- He is a typical Arab line stallion with, what we like to add and maintain in our breeding program, long legs, strong and correct top line, long, high carried neck. His movements are outstanding with a long, flowing trot and balanced, uphill canter.

-Pedigreewise he is free from Gelishikli blood. His linebreeding on Arab as well as being closely related to Absent makes his pedigree concentrated on proven high level performance horses that have not been surpassed within the breed today.

-Via Agilas we will add the Lugovskoy bloodlines to our breeding program that today is founded on bloodlines from Daghestani Stud, Tjagorta, Stavropol, Degeres and Shael. We see it as a very strong addition to our stud farm.

- He has an excellent temperament and character.

- An extra bonus is that he is a gold maker, with our bay mares he will give golden Tekes.

- An extra extra bonus is that he is never shown to T. Ryabova for grading! Hopefully he will be evaluated for his own values and for what he can give to his offspring.

Well, words, words, and dreams, next year we will hopefully know a little bit more about his breeding value for us!

Agilas 2007


Photo Bob Langrish

Agilas


Agilas 22 Kimberly 11 having fun in the sun

1. Leonid04/27/2007 09:27:35
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

My congratulation, he is very interesting stallion and he is very Absent. We try to keep this blood though Karar and Garant.

2. Kerri-Jo Stewart04/27/2007 10:37:42
Homepage: http://Akhal-Teke.ca

He looks great!! Congratulations! You should start up a circus show!!

3. Leonid04/27/2007 11:33:30
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

Jessica, realy I'd like to use him. You are lucky.

4. Anne-Marie04/27/2007 12:39:05
Homepage: http://freedomrunfarm.com

Very nice addition! He looks great for 22!

5. Blanca04/27/2007 13:22:00

As I told you, Jessica, I'm reaally looking to seeing the offspring of pure-good Kazakh and russian products

6. Heather04/27/2007 13:29:11

Now I am extra excited about falconry photo shoot!!! New teke to meet! He looks great, with nice strong lines. Congrats.

7. Leonid04/27/2007 14:04:33
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

Blanca, it is difficult to say Kazakh-Russian product. His father Ararat was born in Russia in thr Tersk Stud by V. Chamborant. Kazakhs forgot him in America, and americans Jessica and Todd looked him and returned to the breed.

8. Todd04/27/2007 14:35:59
Homepage: http://www.beknazar.com/

Actually 860 Ararat 1 was born in Lugovskoy. Ametist was born in Tersk.
From what I see in the studbook, Absent had 1 foal in Kazakhstan in 1958 then not used again until 1963-1965 in Tersk. Then later from 1969-1971 in Kazakhstan again. Absent did have a son in Tersk called Ararat (dam was Fergezel!!) but he wasn't used for breeding.

Todd

9. Jessica04/27/2007 16:46:15

Thank you all for the encouraging words about our new stallion. I do hope we can get some nice foals out of this grand old man.
Yes, Leonid we were very lucky to find this stallion and sometimes I think that it was more than luck, later I will tell you how we found him.

10. Blanca04/28/2007 04:20:03

Kazakh breeding is very specific. It's not just about bloodlines. Actually, I find the arab line horses bred in Russia different from their Kazakh cousins. It's not that's better or worse. Simply, kazakh breeding is selection to produce a compact, harmonius, sound, workable teke. And Agilas is a good example.

So it would be interesting to see this cross between elegance and performance. There are already some examples in Kazakhstan and the result seems to be very promising!

11. Jessica04/28/2007 08:24:26

Blanca, look what the Russian studbook manager prefers the Arab line to look like http://www.akhalt-service.ru/h1.php?id=402 this stallion is elite graded Arab-line, note that he is 155 cm (15.1)
Of course this is an example of how the elegance, harmony and athletism will disappear from the Russian Arab-line if the breed management rule the breeding.
We should be grateful that there are breeders that produces powerful, elegant and usable Tekes, and do not care about the way the breed management encourages breeding on mediocre horses.

12. Leonid04/28/2007 11:49:09
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

There are Arab line through mother lines only in our Stud. But natheless average measures of our broodmares: 159 - 185 - 19,5. Sires: 159,4 - 180,9 - 19,9. Measures could be biger becouse of Shaar is very small: 155 - 180 - 19. Without Arab lines possible to produce elegance, harmony an athletism too. One problem - there are not real sportsmen which ready to work with our powerfull horses.

13. Nadja04/28/2007 15:36:11
Homepage: http://www.akhalt-service.ru

O, Jessica. You become ridiculous in the hatred to Akhalt-service and to me. It is very amusing to me to look behind your perverted attempts. And not only me. Many laugh at you and yours comments. First you could not estimate Opera, now you cannot estimate Palmar. Who is following from horses of Akhalt-service?
To correct your incompetence, it is necessary to explain, that in an estimation for measurements to be very important for a horse with a powerful bone. That the girth of cannon was more than 19 sm. If cannon big, it means, that the horse has not grown up to parameters appropriate it. You are indignant because of Almaz, which has the same growth. But you very much touches, when another's horses are estimated by elite. You envy, I think.
Was many elite, medium-sized stallions (Ashug and others), who have left magnificent posterity. And Palmar is not exception. You certainly can answer my comment with any reasons. But you are not interesting to me in general. Therefore I shall not answer. Discussion with you does not give to me any pleasure. And I prefer to not spoil about you my hands. I wish your good luck in breeding of cob, hunting АТ. Very similar, that your following step participation in show with quarterhorses. I think, that there your horses will borrow high places. At them corresponding dimensions.

14. Jessica04/28/2007 15:44:00

Leonid, I'm surprised that you didn't have bigger average cannon bone circumference in your horses, most of them seem to be of good substance/bone. But still 19.9 for stallions is good, do you know the latest average for stallions for the whole breed?
There are elegant, well-built and athletic individuals represented in every line as this is the goal for this breed to produce in one single individual power and elegance - athletism and nobility. Certainly not an easy task but not doable. We need the diversity in this breed so that we have massive as well as elegant types to chose from to keep the horse from becoming to elegant or to massive.
I do not think it is correct to give high evaluations to individuals from the Arab line that are small and badly developed. The signum for the line is tall, correct horses with substance/bone and above average performance ability. The balance between power and elegance in this breed must not be lost.
No rider will resist the best Tekes once they have been riding them, we have to work hard on producing high class Tekes and make sure that the most talented animals come to good young horse educators that can take out their full potential.
In order to do so we have to spend more efforts on educating new and old breeders about the breed and its potential. We must stop the current abuse of the grading system and make sure that we care for the breed by not encouraging breeding on animals that actually suffer themselves due to conformational faults and deviations.

15. Jessica04/28/2007 15:56:08

Nadja, I'm indifferent to Akhalt-service you have your natural place in the food chain just like I have, we do not work on the same markets so I do not have any reasons to feel hatred or envy to you. I need my energy for other purposes.

I have told you before that thanks to your thorough publications of pictures of your horses together with the grading results I have become more aware of what kind of horses the Russian breed management encourages and I do not think it is good for this breed.

I do evaluate horses from my reference points and obviously they are different from yours and the Russian breed management. I do not care if you think I am right or wrong or laugh at me.

So I agree with you, why should you care?

16. Jessica04/28/2007 16:39:15

I know that the Show Hunter discipline is not familiar to everyone in the world, to avoid any misunderstandings, the reference horse for a Show Hunter is the English Thoroughbred, they way it is built, the way it moves, its courage and stamina.
With these references the Hunters are judged. I think the the breed in the west that the Tekes mostly resemble is the TB and therefore I find the Hunter ring of interest for my breedings.
The requirements for winning such a ring is that the horse is sound and correct, with movements and substance for working a whole day under rider, a character, courage and ability to rider over any obstacle in a safe way. A horse this is a pleasure to ride.
I do think that if Tekes can win such shows and show to the public that Tekes are all these things, it is great and I am honored to have been given such high judgement for my horses.
The breeds that rule the show hunter ring today are TB's, Warmbloods (of a lighter model with long flowing gaits) TB/WB crosses and also TB/Quarter horse crosses as long as they are elegant enough.
It also great to explore the versality of the Tekes, they can do so many things! and the more things they do and succeed in the better for all of us.
The American Quarter Horse Association arranges a wide array of shows for QHs and Appendix QHs, Tekes are not allowed to show there though as they cannot be registered as QHs.

17. Jessica04/28/2007 20:45:58

Nadja wrote: "To correct your incompetence, it is necessary to explain, that in an estimation for measurements to be very important for a horse with a powerful bone. That the girth of cannon was more than 19 sm. If cannon big, it means, that the horse has not grown up to parameters appropriate it."
Do I understand you correctly I interpret your saying that if a horse has a certain cannon bone circumference and a certain height, one can say that this horse grew a full cannon bone (bone mass) but for some reason did not grow up to its potential height over the withers? So that certain horses according to the stud book management does not have to fulfil the height criteria because they are estimated that they could have had another height over the withers?
I am sorry for my incompetence, but as I have said before I have other references, in many instructions for judges it is pointed out the importance of evaluate only what they see in that horse that day, judges are not allowed (for to me obvious reasons) to speculate or make predictions.

18. Jessica04/28/2007 20:55:08

Looking and comparing measurements again, I found Magnatli that is now with Anne-Marie Rasch, he has the same type and conformation as Almaz 8-8 and exactly the same measurements 155 - 18.5
Magnatli is elite and Almaz is downgraded from elite to class I with the explanation that his measurements are not good enough for elite since new guidelines were implemented for the breed.
I have no opinions about the true value of any of these two stallions I brought them up as examples to explain how difficult it is for us in this breed to understand the rules and also to accept them.

19. Jessica D.04/28/2007 21:06:29

Jessica - Thanks for clearing that up about the Hunters... ;) QH's actually do not do nearly as well as the more refined TB's do in hunters...The refinement and elegance of the Teke is also why I think they will do well in the Hunter world. I dream of someday, maybe the Teke will be the breed of choice for Hunt-Seat competitions....afterall...the breed of choice is the TB at the moment and it was greatly influenced by the Teke! :)

To say that Tekes are like QH's if they compete in Hunters and win in Hunter shows is a gross misjudgement...especially since QH's dont typically make good hunter horses...it also shows a lot of ignorance to make a statement as such about the sport. In my experience, it is usually best to remain quite about a subject if one does not know enough about it to make a legitamate statement about it.

I think Agilas is a fine animal! If I had a mare I would not hesitate to breed to him.

20. Leonid04/28/2007 22:47:17
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

By last Stud Book № X average measer of Sires: 158,9 - 177,5 - 19,41; Broodmares: 157,3 - 178,4 - 18,77. Horses, wich have heavy legs, have not enough race class offen. As everywhere exist rule of "gold center". Gold balance between dry and massive.

I see one estimation only, one groupe - horses wich I'd like to use in breeding, another - horses wich I do not like to use.

21. Nadja04/29/2007 13:24:57
Homepage: http://www.akhalt-service.ru

Only the explanatory (for all). Magnatli has received estimations in 2 years and 8 months. And measurements have been made at the same time. And he received estimations in view of the age. If he will not grow and remains former growth and with former girth of cannon, hims certification can be changed to 1 class of 1 category. These are new requirements since 2002. And it has occured about Almaz and many other mares and stallions, including with horses of my chief, than he is very dissatisfied. But such stallions as Posalak, Ashug, Senetir, Alaman, Ekemen, Mangyt, Melekush with the same growth are written in studbook, as elite. And all of them have an estimation for quality of posterity not less than 8.0 points, except for Melekush, which has 7 points.

22. Leonid04/29/2007 14:36:10
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

My oppinion that MAAK is zero. There are not even one question (include estimation) wich is in the competence of this MAAK. May be does anybody know about workability of this organization?

My advice - forget the grading and live quite.

23. laurence Bougault04/30/2007 11:09:51
Homepage: http://www.cheval-akhal-teke.com

Hi Leonid, Jessica and everybody!
It's allways fun to read all this (i could write the same sometimes, and sometimes i do, but in french it's better for me when i'm angry!). Anyway, I just come back from the forest where we gallop me and Abdoula Kan, and it was just pleasure. It's so good to live quite with a horse you love and who loves you.
Anyway, just the comment about the conformation I want as a rider (not a judge). Tall but not too much (1,70 isn't for me a Teke anymore). Long but not too long (it's a horse, not a train). Strong enough to go far. Light enough to go fast. Leonid, i think you advice Karakaisu to somebody on this blog. I saw him last year and that's what i personnaly call a shrimp. I just finish to translate Alexander Klimuk AT'breed history that is in english on your website and it's exactly for me the contra of what should be the characteristic of that breed : the only tall breed coming from steppa and not from the forest (heavy horses are tall as well, but heavy!).
Tell me, professionnals, why it doesn't exist something like in the arab and other breeds? External judges, that have no personnal interests in the breed and can be objectif? Why only one and not 3 ???
An other question : how many generations do you need to pass something from the phenotype to the genotype (as an exemple, if you breed without the right food, you will get a small horse, even if the parents were tall, but what will he produce, tall or short horses???).
Ok people, i go back outside, it's the right place for a horse girl!

24. Leonid04/30/2007 23:59:25
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

I like shrimps, very tasty with beer. In any case try to do something better, then shrimps. I recomended Karakoysy, becouse Alchak is too young and I can not looked between other somebody better in the West.
I don't need to weit another generation, I do best horses today. Don't belive me? Come, or ask my customers.

25. Nathalie05/01/2007 06:23:06

Laurence < yes go out of this blog, it will be better for all ...

26. Heather05/01/2007 07:58:23

Laurence,
In reference to your genetics question. To be technical phenotype is the physical expression of the genotype. A horse that is small from malnutrition is not really a product of phenotype, as far as I understand, because the genetics may be for a larger horse. The smallness would be the result of environmental influences, such as a lack of food and proper care, and not the expression of the genes. This does not pass to the genotype over generations. The change comes in natural or purposeful selection for the traits that best suit the environment or needs of breeder. Someone feel free to correct if I am mistaken - that is how I understand it.

Your posting sounded very quaint! Galloping in the forests of France... this sounds like a vacation add here in the US! Half my family is in Paris as we speak, so I am exceedingly jealous anyhow. Besides, my family is Scottish, so of course I'm historically and culturally bound to love France.

27. Jessica05/01/2007 08:06:12

Laurence, I think it is stimulating to discuss the Teke type and also the different stallions that are offered to the public for breeding, what they look like, how they are marketed, how they are evaluated by MAAK, the stallions is the flagship of the breed and the breeders.
Very few breeders today like to maintain the size of their breeding herd in the 152 - 157 size range, many are instead working on increasing the height of their horses.
However, when judgeing a horse you must also look to the overall impression and harmony of the body build. I have had a 166 cm and 155 cm stallion at the same time in my stables and we mostly picked the 155 cm because he was the better horse. Interestingly enough he was elite in the same show as when the 166 cm was class I.
The genotype+environment = phenotype in other words the environment affects the phenotype almost as much as the genotype, only if you make sure that you breed horses in the same environment you can see what is the genotype. Size and bone for example is very much affected by environment, at the same time as size and bone has a high (50 or above) hereditability.
It has been difficult to select breeding material from Russia as sometimes it is obvious that some horses have not been fed and many have not been excercised enough, those horses are normally underdeveloped and small. But you cannot always be sure on if it is an environmental trait or genetical. The additional problem is that you cannot rely on the statistics from the studbook as there are far to many errors in the studbook, only 20% of the horses we have had coming trough our stables over the 15 years we have been with this breed have had correct measurements recorded in their papers or the studbook. So in my experience and opinion there is approximatelly 80% error range in the measurements.
About Karakaisu I agree that he is a smaller and more elegant type of Teke, but that does not mean that he hasn't got his place in the population of breeding stallions. The recommendation would be to breed him to tall, long lined mares with good bone. Maybe even some mares need a stallion like Karakaisu in order to not get to heavy or to tall.
Size aside I think Karakaisu is of a quality we need in this breed, he is well put together and is what you call of high quality.
Personally I think there are far to many stallions offered that are not well put together such as having the front end and hind end not matching and also bad top lines, in other words low quality stallions.
Shrimp or not I think it will be interesting to see offspring from Karakaisu.
In order to have your Teke professionally judged you will have to take you horse to other events where they have objective judges that work in groups etc. This you will not find with the Tekes, therefore you cannot trust even the measurements.

28. Jessica05/01/2007 08:12:53

Nathalie, I do not agree with you that Laurence should leave this blog, I think she brings up interesting view points that are mostly stimulationg, obviously she has been doing a lot of thinking and research into this breed as well as hands on every day work with the animals that leads to many interesting observations to discuss with other Teke lovers.
It was unecessary to compare the stallion to a shrimp but we have had worse description of stallions here and still those problems have been sorted out.
How is Karakaisu doing? How is the training coming along, has he had many mares so far?
I think it is so interesting to follow his breeding career.

29. Tabitha05/01/2007 08:35:45

congratulations with your new stallion!!

30. Jessica05/01/2007 09:45:13

My comments to the grading system where a young horse is allowed to have smaller measurements to get the elite grading.
For the stallion owner who has a young stallion that received elite and will not grow enough to maintain his elite grading as a mature animal the best thing to do is to never show the stallion for grading again and then the stallion is life time elite graded.
That's really a good incitament for people to bring their older stallions back for grading?
Still using this system to allow elite grading to non-mature non-productive animals is quite difficult for me to understand. To a three-year-old horse that does not fulfil the size requirements for the elite grading, the assessment is more a prognosis for the future than an evaluation of what stands in front of you.
This also means that the evaluation of pedigree will be different as animals with identical pedigrees will get different point for pedigree depending on when they were born and evaluated, as well as the points for offspring will be floating as a horse is regraded over his/her lifetime. One might ask oneself what this kind of system is good for really?

31. Carolyn05/01/2007 10:59:19

The comment on the height of the Teke- how it is supposed to be a tall horse coming from the steppe. This caught my eye as it is something I come across fairly frequently in my work. If we take the Teke strain back to antiquity it becomes necessary to understand that 'tall' was a relative term. Yes the Teke-type horses from Central Asia were one of the taller breeds at the time, but in comparison to modern breeds, they weren't really that tall. The ancient Teke was tall (ie average around 15, maybe 15.2hh) when compared to other breeds from the Near East and the Mediterranean, which were generally about 13-14hh. I don't follow the belief that the Teke was the famous Nisean horse of Persia- these horses are described as being robust with a thick head and roman nose- something the Teke definitely doesn not have. But again, the Nisean is a larger horse in the sense of its breadth, not height.
I suppose where I am going with all this is: for thousands of years the Teke was a (by modern standards) medium-sized horse with an light, elegant build. This suited their function in society and the environment in which they lived. Maybe it is just sheer ignorance on my part, but I don't understand why anyone would be biased against a stallion who is well put together, just because he is 'short'. Why do they have to be tall?

32. laurence Bougault05/01/2007 11:22:27
Homepage: http://www.cheval-akhal-teke.com

Sorry Nathalie to be rude to you but it's not a person problem (i don't even know you!).
Leonid I believe you!! and find Murad an interesting horse for breeding. OK, i accept the invitation!
We have not enough stallions in west, but some interesting: a Dialog's son, somme good Yel as well and others. It's allways possible to get a good foal from Karakaisu if you choose the right mare for him. I will be very happy if he produce good faols because we need good foals to interest good riders. I will allways be interested to see what Nathalie you will do with your stallion and your ethologue friend. I really hope you will do the best. I'm not protectionnist like you. What i do in the breed will allways be for the horses.
I won't say anything about grading, etc. but i was just very disappointed last year when i saw the new AT arriving because they look correct on the photos but in truth its something different. i won't say more because i don't think people here in France are ready to learn anything. To many want to breed before to be able to stay on a horse propely.
Heather, if you come to Paris, call me and i'll bring you into the forest!
About phenotype and genotype, phenotype IS the environmental conditions. What i've read about learns us that you need ONLY three generations with a specific phenotype to change a gentotype. Ask to Japan that use to import Percheron and stops because the horses were completly different after only 2 generations. That's why we all try to have environmental conditions as close as possible from Turkmenistan. That's why Kazhak horses are a little different, etc.
Thank you Jessica to find some interest to my opinion. It's just an opinion. But i ride all my horses, i take them as foals and teach them all the things they do, and i feel like a proper nomad : i won't let anybody ride one of my baby if he is the horse i'm teaching at the moment. If you want loyalty in a horse give him loyalty.

33. Heather05/01/2007 15:34:58

Laurence,
I was not at all familiar with the research you mentioned about the phenotype influencing the genotype, but will certainly look it up, as that would make for some fascinating reading! It's always good to learn something new.

34. Leonid05/01/2007 15:46:02
Homepage: http://www.shael-teke.com

laurence, I don't know about percherons in Japan, this is Japan probleb only. I know only one - my horses are best in the world and will be better from year to year. Now I don't know where is Turkmenistan on the map.

35. maria05/02/2007 05:24:50

I would like to endorse the association between stallions and food. Personally, I have always regarded Mualim as bearing a strong resemblance to a bagel - bublik! Don't be offended next time someone compares your stallion to food

36. Heather05/02/2007 08:23:23

To all the Russian bloggers and music lovers,
This is totally unrelated to the thread, but I just wanted to mention to our Russian bloggers especially how disappointed I was to hear about the loss of Mstislav Rostropovich (Ростропо́вич)... I played violin for years in the local orchestra, but secretly wanted to be a cellist! Sad to lose one of the most brilliant musicians of the 20th century.

37. Jessica05/02/2007 09:56:17

Carolyn, you brought up such interesting observations, I have been waiting for this. I'll create a new thread about size and Nissean type.