I checked the spelling with Ridgeway and obviously Nisean is with one s. Must have been Swenglish again.
Note that the horses I suggest for types are all correct and of high quality, a high quality horse is a horse that is well put together with good top lines and a hind end and back end that are in harmony. A Teke that is coarse (note there is a difference between massive and coarse) with deviations from harmony and function is not a good Teke, no matter what type you would like to assign it to.
In order to improve ourselves in the west we must look more critically on the Tekes from that point of view. We cannot accept faulty horses of mediocre quality and then try to market them as "this is what this unique breed is supposed to look like" because it is wrong and horsemen will never look at this breed again.



Karat


Ametist


Akin


Ararat (note that he is sable legged, a fault to look out for in the Arab line)







Alma


Audan


Gayaz (note how close Gayaz' topline is to the top line of Serdar as in the painting that I would say is very close to the standard of excellence for this breed)


Proklada ( note the roman nose that is not a fault in this breed)

1. Carolyn05/03/2007 12:36:20

I would say that there are definitely some Nisean-esque qualities in a several of those horses. They don't have the heavy, roman-nosed head that was a hallmark of the Nisean breed- but it is entirely possible that it was bred out of them over time.
This may be an ignorant question, but are there many mares who fall into the massive category? Does the massive line have a deeper chest than the others?
One of my (ambitious) projects for the future is to try and look at images and remains of the horse from antiquity to see how the types of horses change or stay the same over time- what types are coming from what regions and so forth.

2. Kerri-Jo Stewart05/03/2007 13:35:41
Homepage: http://Akhal-Teke.ca

to my eye Gayaz is very different from what I considered the more massive type, like Ararat and Ametist. How are you making the comparisons?

3. Nathalie05/04/2007 05:15:58

jessica < how do you describe the nissean type ? When I look at your photos, I can say the very long neck like a swam but also thick, compact and strong body, hooked nose, big sizes. So what do you think of Azan's type ? Horses of line Everdi Teleke looks like this description but the body is not so compact as Ararat or Ametist.
I have an other question concerning the ancient type. According to A. Kimuk, Pampa has the ancient type. What does it means ? It is the nissean type ? What's the reference of this ancient type ? How can we say that it is ancient type ? does it come from turkmenian tradition or from scientific research ?

4. Ingrid Høvik05/04/2007 06:44:31

I have a offspring after Singapour, Saad and I wonder where you folks would place him? He is 161cm and you can check him out on this link
http://vip.hestemarked.no/galleri.asp?ID=8610&galleri=show&side=4

Jessica: what do you mean with this: Ararat (note that he is sable legged, a fault to look out for in the Arab line)? English is not my mother tongue, so I had to look up the word sable and translated that means in Norwegian: dark, black, soergeklaer

5. Jessica 05/04/2007 13:46:36

Carolyn, there are massive mares in this breed with deep/big chest circumference. Our foundation mare Alma is a good example. We call her our Kazakh panzarwagon.
When I have time I'll search our studbook database for the chest circumferences. However, the numbers in the studbook cannot be trusted so whatever I get from my search will not be 100% description of the reality.
Another question, if you measure chest circumference, where and how do you measure?

6. Jessica 05/04/2007 13:50:53

Kerry-Jo, these horses serve more like examples of what I consider Nisena type of horses, these are based on my personal observations of how the Nisean horse is described etc. I think that Gayaz have very many Nisean qualities, maybe this photo is not the best illustrating this horse but in the flesh and in his appearance and movements I'd say he is very Nisean. I should have presented another photo.

7. Jessica 05/04/2007 14:02:31

Nathalie, I can only speak for myself not being a scientist more a breeder that is trying to grasp what is within the range of type for my breed and in doing so I have to travel in history. The futher back we go the less we know and more is left for presumptions or imagination.
Carolyn, that I am so grateful she found this blog, is the scientist and is a great person to test wild hypothesis with.
That's how I see it. With ancient we talk about several types of horses that have influenced the modern Teke.
Klimuk is an authority on the modern Teke breed as well as its history. He has bred several roman headed Tekes and I can maybe guess that he also see the Nisean horses in these traits?
Maybe he eventually has time to answer himself on the blog, I know this subject is very interesting to him.
Azan is an extraordinary animal and I put him, like Gayaz in the Nisean category, the Tekes are not the Nisean breed but some horses within the breed show many Nisean traits.
I think by discussing this and more thoroughly examine the different Teke looks we can train and stimulate our eye for the horses we work with.
What is modern and what is ancient in the Teke breed, well, that's another stimulating and interesting discussion!

8. Carolyn05/04/2007 23:06:10

Hmm, I'm not sure what the exact points for chest circumference are, is it from shoulder to shoulder? Or just the breadth of the front of the chest, looking head on at the horse?

9. laurence Bougault05/05/2007 07:12:59
Homepage: http://www.cheval-akhal-teke.com

Question to specialists: who owns Narguil-Guely at the moment?

10. maria05/06/2007 05:37:37

This is the best discussion on AT type I have ever read since getting involved with the breed now seven years ago. Let's continue it! I too was first surprised that Jessica added Gayaz to the list of massive-type horses but, in fact, now that I think of it, when I did see Gayaz in real life, the image he leaves is in line with what is being observed in this type.

11. maria05/06/2007 08:36:53

Jessica, there is another picture of Audan where he is shown closer - he is a good massive chap! Any fans of this type of Teke? I confess I am!!

12. Jessica05/07/2007 09:58:50

Maria, I agree that it is stimulating to look at the horses from different viewpoints, good training for the eye.
And again there is a difference between massive or maybe Nissean type and coarse simple type of Teke.
I you have a better photo of Audan and want me to publish it you can email it to me.